The biggest news of Sunday occurred in the morning, when not only was Derrick Rose ruled out of the game but it came with a fairly worrying prognosis:
"[It's been going on for a] couple of games...It was the whole trip, but I just played through it. The more I played through it, it tended to get worse after every game. At the time, I was really worried about it, but just tried to stay positive and hopefully I'll be all right. I don't know the diagnosis. I don't know what to call it, but I just know my back is not right, I don't remember [when it started]. It just came from out of nowhere, man. That's the scary thing about it."
Rose will see a specialist Monday when the Bulls return to Chicago, but wouldn't speculate on whether he'd play in the team's next game, Tuesday against Sacramento at the United Center.
There's much more at the link, including some bullcrap from Thibs, who's Belichick-ian when it comes to injuries, which is fine though annoying. Tough to say if...who am I kidding, it's easy to say! Rose shouldn't have played in New Orleans on Tuesday. Organizational failure from Derrick himself on up.
In his absence, the Bulls encountered their first deficit in over a week of feasting on delicious cupcakes, and stayed behind throughout. Though shooting awfully, they were never out of today's game as Boston couldn't put them away, but the Celtics were in control the entire game so it's hard to even see much of a moral victory. As the Bulls stayed close yet the time wound down, it was apparent that without Rose they just don't have a playmaker to be reliable in set possessions, only scoring when they would trap the Celtics into a turnover, or when they could pound the offensive glass.
There were facets of the game, like that frontcourt advantage, where the Bulls did look good . The Celtics were without Jermaine O'Neal and Brandon Bass which shuffled up some inexperienced members in their frontcourt rotation, and the Bulls bigs were able to feast. Both Boozer and Noah provided efficient offense over the course of the game, going 15-26 with a lack of Boston shotblocking (outside of some turn-back-the-clock moments from Garnett). That made it even more frustrating to see backups Taj Gibson and Omer Asik routinely blowing layups that proved costly. Oftentimes the Bulls would be the ones earning the loose balls, and unable to convert.
The Celtics bigs did manage to out-run their Bulls counterparts, and as a team the C's finished with a 33-7 edge in fast break points. It was on times of not getting back, or failure to stop the ball when back, that earned Carlos Boozer yet another tongue-lashing at the hands of an announcing crew. Jeff Van Gundy emphasized the issues with Boozer not making the right rotations being one of trust from his teammates and coach. Given how close he is with Tom Thibodeau, I wonder if JVG was acting as a surrogate, providing the analysis that Thibs himself can't do to his own player.
As mentioned, Boozer was ably qualified to take advantage when he had the mismatch advantage, which was a welcome sign, as is Noah's apparently fully-fledged return to past performance this season. But as also mentioned above, when the Bulls needed baskets late and the defense concentrated on him, Boozer wasn't good enough to be that go-to option, and two straight turnovers led to two Rondo lobs which effectively put the Bulls away for good. They did get another chance down 3 with just over a shot-clock to go, but it was CJ Watson's turn to ruin the possession forcing a wild long-two.
It was a fitting end for CJ's day, spent shooting awfully and dominated by Rondo, who wound up with a triple-double. BaB enemy #1 was on fire today, commanding the fast break, hitting a few jumpers and a majority of his free throws, getting his assist-padding confused for unselfishness, tugging on Luol Deng's bad wrist near the end of the game...and to be honest he did look to be more of the All-Star than Deng. Like Watson and Boozer, Luol (who did have the wrist wrapped more than before) had his chances to score in the half-court and couldn't do so, not even making a shot until midway through the 3rd quarter.
We know that offensively, the whole team exists and operates as satellites around Derrick Rose, so it's tough to expect them to transcend their usual roles in his absence. But watching it, it follows to wonder what will they be like when Rose is in the game but effectively mitigated by a tough playoff defense. Sure, he's commanding attention, but the other Bulls still need to execute to make things not end like last year.
Of course, both time-wise and team-wise, it's a long way until the playoffs. Sunday's game was the end of an unheard-of 9-game road trip, they were missing their MVP and their free agent difference (though it's been so long he may as well be myth), and they still played hard and looked defensively stout and deep. That's not changing. But the Bulls need to get Rose right, and learn to live with this potentially new less-consistent version of Deng, before we can see if there is indeed a difference this year. The Bulls schedule gets much less dense and road-laden from here on out, and so far they've not only survived it but have the best record in the conference. It's a great story and an accomplishment. But now it'll probably be the rest of the way that's more about survival.
1 recs | 197 comments
FUCK RONDO!!!
RED_BULL - February 12, 2012
boozer drove to the rim a few times today
that makes me happy.
id like to see him just post up his man more though. it puzzles me why he doesnt choose to every time he gets the ball. its not like he doesnt know how
sin - February 12, 2012
tis one of life's great mysteries
jesus christos - February 12, 2012
.
obnoxious american - February 13, 2012
Skrillex didn't win a Grammy.
All in all, a good Sunday.
chapuforyou - February 12, 2012
SKREEEEEEEEEEEEEE
boom pow booooooooooooooooom
boyonthedock - February 12, 2012
beep bep bloop bop beep bop bloop
WOOBLE WOOBLE BEEP BLOOP BOOM SSSDFD BEEP WOOOOBLE WEERRRBLE WOOOBLE
chapuforyou - February 12, 2012
guys guys
rondo doesnt read this blog
sin - February 12, 2012
this might be the best thing you've ever said on here.
Jaina - February 13, 2012
whats a grammy?
can jeremy lin win one of those??
sin - February 12, 2012
Who is Jeremy Lin?
chapuforyou - February 12, 2012
who is chapu?
sin - February 12, 2012
Just making a Grammy joke
whoisarcadefire.tumblr.com
whoisboniver.tumblr.com
chapuforyou - February 12, 2012
just making a chapu joke
cant see him so far down on the bench :D
sin - February 12, 2012
Fuck you :[)
chapuforyou - February 12, 2012
the best response
jk sin….hehe
Trey23 - February 13, 2012
with the way the standings are looking
how epic would it be to have another first round 7 game series against the celtics?
only this time we’d have john lucas clotheslining garnett
cj watson throwing rondo into the scorers table
and rose hitting some game winners
sin - February 12, 2012
Dude, I'm not even trying to talk trash, but we'd win that shit in 5 or less EASY, if healthy
Juiceboxjerry - February 12, 2012
"if healthy" is such a huuuuuuge IF now
i didnt think our team would be that banged up coming into this season seeing as how most of our guys are still young-ish and have a relatively decent injury history but damn
luol rip and rose coming in and out is so not good.
why couldnt boozer be the one with the bad back, crap toes, retarded hand, and broken groin?
sin - February 12, 2012
Well yeah, we're obviously fucked if the team stays this injured
I’m just saying this for any Boston douchebags that think they’re on to something. Great win though, guys! RONDO! Triple double, WOOOOOO!!!
Juiceboxjerry - February 12, 2012
not gunna lie though rondo is a pretty good point guard
hes just never going to be a first option on any championship team.
he’s a great point guard to run a championship team though
sin - February 12, 2012
Yes, we just need to find him a few Hall of Famers again and he should be all set
Juiceboxjerry - February 12, 2012
i would that.
RED_BULL - February 12, 2012
Interesting Trend
When we play cupcakes we win. When we play good teams we usually lose.
D-Cas - February 12, 2012
Interesting trend.
Our starting five hasn’t all played in any of our losses but one. Go home, now.
wrigleyrocker12 - February 12, 2012
Meh, a lot of that is bullshit
We beat the Heat every game last year and look at how that turned out. Get to the playoffs healthy and I like our chances
Juiceboxjerry - February 12, 2012
Interesting Trend #2
When we score more than the other team we win. When we score less than the other team we usually lose.
sin - February 12, 2012
"Usually"?
Juiceboxjerry - February 12, 2012
just copying his statement :X
sin - February 12, 2012
today disproves that trend, since the Celtics aren't good!
Osaka - February 12, 2012 via mobile
they are good, but certainly not elite
Brigade17 - February 12, 2012
Not to rip on Lu, because I still think he's deserving of his All Star status
but is he the first All Star that couldn’t create his own shot? I mean, with his ability, and great size, you’d think by now he’d at least have one or two go-to moves in the bag. It seems like the only thing he does is try to shoot over people, or cut to the basket.
Juiceboxjerry - February 12, 2012
No he's not
For one, Andre Iguodala is just as limited at shot-creating as Deng.
Poloplaya14 - February 12, 2012
what?
iggy is miles ahead of deng in terms of getting his own shot off
sin - February 12, 2012
He's got more moves than Deng, but he's also a pretty mediocre shooter
Defenders sag off him, which really limits what he can do.
Poloplaya14 - February 12, 2012
well yeah obviously his shooting is iffy
but jbj was just talking about the simple ability to create a shot.
if deng tried to even do that id guess he’ be shooting somewhere around 25%
sin - February 12, 2012
Creating a shot doesn't have any fucking value unless you make it...
Poloplaya14 - February 12, 2012
well theres not so good and then theres just cant make it
id say iggy is not so good at creating a shot
and luol is just cant make it when trying to create a shot
sin - February 12, 2012
Oh whatever!
Ball handling and ability to playmaking is extremely valuable and it’s the one thing we don’t have without Rose on the court.
Dils - February 13, 2012
Sorry, but that's poop
Andre Igoudala is like a fucking point guard. He ripped our vaunted defense apart when we played them.
Juiceboxjerry - February 12, 2012
wait we played defense that night?
sin - February 12, 2012
Iggy averages less than 13 a game
He’s a great passer and ballhandler, but he’s not good at actually making shots consistently.
Poloplaya14 - February 12, 2012
Ok, but he's still better than Deng at "creating a shot", and his assist numbers are elite for his position
I’m not saying that he’s a great “scorer” or that Deng is worthless offensively, just that, in the history of All Star players, his game is pretty limited.
Just to follow up in that, if someone who is good at checking out stats would like to look, I’d love to know what percentage of Lu’s shots are assisted, and how he compares to other All Star players, in that regard
Juiceboxjerry - February 12, 2012
Okay, we're talking about two different things then
Yeah, Iggy’s definitely way better than Deng at creating shots for others, but in terms of scoring, they’re both extremely limited as far as all-stars go.
To answer your specific question, 62.3% of Deng’s buckets this year are assisted. For comparison, only 38% of Lebron’s makes this year are assisted. But then again, Kevin Durant was at 62.4% assisted last year (he is a lot lower at 45.1% this year). You can look all this stuff on Hoopdata if you want.
Poloplaya14 - February 12, 2012
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting
I don’t want to make it sound like I think Lu is a “bad” offensive player, but he just seems unique as a very good player, in that, he can score twenty one night, and eight the next and most people wouldn’t think twice.
I guess I just feel lie there’s a certain amount of polish to his game this isn’t there offensively, that you would expect from someone with his ability.
Like, if he had that mid-range shot down cold, where, you just knew it was money when he was even remotely open, I don’t think I’d have anything to complain about. But it just feels like, from night to night, there’s no consistency. There’s nothing you can count on. And I feel like when you’re an All Star level player, there should be a little more there in that regard.
Juiceboxjerry - February 12, 2012
that still annoys me and its the one biggest reason i still have iggy and gay as better players than luol
luol is a great defender and team player etc but it boggles me how he doesnt know how to create a simple shot off the dribble or dribble competently yet. its just weeeeeird
and to answer your question id say a lot of east’s centers before dwight couldnt really create a shot on their own. ex. ben wallace
cant really think of any wing players off the top of my head though
sin - February 12, 2012
Yeah, but I'm not really counting centers because that's a unique position
I should’ve clarified. My bad. That being said , don’t compare Dwight and Lu. Dwight creates shots just by being near the basket.
Juiceboxjerry - February 12, 2012
oops, you can disregard my mutombo reference.
but deng’s offense is slashing. I don’t think he needs to chance his offensive play to be honest, I don’t want him out there isolating. I think what he needed the most was 3pt shooting and he did that last season.
hedonism bot - February 12, 2012
I guess what I'm saying is that he needs to be more reliable
I mean, I don’t know if that’s a completely fair criticism considering all of the things he brings to the game, but it bugs me nonetheless
Like today, I kinda cringed every time he had the ball on offense. Should it be that way for an All Star player?
Juiceboxjerry - February 12, 2012
offensively reliable?
He is really clutch defensively. I think good defensive players always get unfairly criticized, but I think he provides enough scoring to round out his overall game, he isn’t a black hole on offense.
If he pokes the ball loose from the opposing team and either he or someone else runs it the other way for an easy bucket, does that count as creating offense?
hedonism bot - February 13, 2012
Okay the "Deng can't create his shot" thing is way overblown
No, he doesn’t have the widest array of moves in the world, but he can put the ball on the floor, shoot, and even post up when he has a size advantage. He can pull off the “take two hard dribbles right, pull up and shoot” pretty much any time he wants. It’s not the highest-% shot in the world, but neither is Melo’s “jabstep, jabstep, fadeaway”.
Poloplaya14 - February 12, 2012
Mutombo?
hedonism bot - February 12, 2012
Gerald Wallace
jpm356 - February 12, 2012
Wallace can't shoot to save his life, but at his best, he was always fantastic at driving to the basket
Juiceboxjerry - February 12, 2012
speaking of the allstar game
Doesn’t the east basically have the starting 5 of the Olympic team?
sin - February 12, 2012
yup
Brigade17 - February 12, 2012
i would start kobe over wade
Chanel#1_Rose - February 13, 2012
Ben Wallace.
Deng can create a shot if he has to, but not consistently throughout the game
Brigade17 - February 12, 2012
Yeah, that's the one that stuck out to me as well
but he also won like the most defensive player of the year awards ever, and averaged an insane amount of blocks and rebounds while he was in his prime
Juiceboxjerry - February 13, 2012
Ben Wallace? Dennis Rodman?
Tim S. - February 13, 2012
I'll be checking this blog....
….for news on the specialist visit and how it goes. I’m starting to worry about this now.
3ptace - February 12, 2012
I'll be sure to keep you posted (serious face).
Juiceboxjerry - February 12, 2012
i'm the specialist rose will be seeing
i’ll keep you updated, no worries
jesus christos - February 12, 2012
I thought the specialist was a Thai masseuse?
chowder - February 12, 2012
WELP, HOPEFULLY WE'LL ALL GET A HAPPY ENDING HERE, EH?
http://instantrimshot.com/
obnoxious american - February 13, 2012
I'd like to give a shout-out to Noah for an excellent game (minus the fastbreak turnover late in the 4th)
He single handedly got Boston’s frontline in significant foul trouble all game simply by crashing the boards.
chowder - February 12, 2012
Ronnie does a lot on the defensive end and otherwise, but we really cannot have him bringing zero offensively out there
Only four shots today, and one was a fast break layup and the other was a putback off an offensive rebound. He obviously wasn’t going to continue the hot shooting he started the season with, but he at least needs to make the defense think that he might shoot it from outside the paint. That’s 31 minutes tonight in which the defense basically did not have to worry about him scoring, which really hurts with Rose injured, Deng limited, and our center position.
He did a hell of a job on Allen, and picked up some assists and steals, but we really need him at least shooting. Otherwise CJ will just take those shots, and they’ll be just as low percentage or lower.
jpm356 - February 12, 2012
I've said enough today and riled up enough people
it went from entertaining to aggravating. I’ll just say that our team is who we thought they were; extremely reliant on Rose. But damn, I hate Rondo and those Celtics fans.
Does the Bulls trainer still have some of “Michael’s Secret Stuff” laying around for Rose to take to heal his back/toe/Skittle addiction? Does that stuff have an expiration date?
Brigade17 - February 12, 2012
I think his wife got the secret stuff in the divorce
CowBearsFan - February 13, 2012
I miss Rip
Rose makes everyone else better, but Rip makes the offense work better. Today, CJ was option #1 and Jo was option #3. With everyone healthy, Jo is option #5 and CJ is option #7 (after Derrick, Luol, Rip, Boozer, Jo, and KK).
Osaka - February 12, 2012 via mobile
yep...any word on him?
I thought they told him to just fly to Chicago for the road trip and they’d re-evaluate (god, I hate that phrase) after that
Brigade17 - February 12, 2012
heard "still a week away" today
Osaka - February 12, 2012 via mobile
geez..
Brigade17 - February 12, 2012
I wouldn't get my hopes up prior to the All Star game
Hopefully they play it safe, and I don’t see any reason for them to push it unless he says that he’s feeling like a 20 year old
Juiceboxjerry - February 13, 2012
lol Rip will never feel like a 20 year old again
I’ll settle for him just feeling 30
Brigade17 - February 13, 2012
At this point I'd settle for him feeling like he's a healthy 40 year old
tuluse - February 13, 2012
So I just looked, and the Bulls only have five more games until the All Star break (totally didn't realize that)
Each one a home game, and only two versus teams above .500 (Atlanta and Boston). Am I wrong in thinking that, despite how Rose or Hamilton say they’re feeling, it would be criminal if either played until after that game?
(and Rose shouldn’t play in the All Star game at all. which actually wouldn’t be too much of a departure from the way he performs in those types of games anyway)
Juiceboxjerry - February 13, 2012
I don't think we really have the information to make that call
I don’t know what causes Rose’s backspasms or what the treatment is or how playing affects them. So if he can get it under control, and playing isn’t going to make things worse, why shouldn’t he play?
Likewise if Rip gets 100% healthy, is there a point to not playing him?
tuluse - February 13, 2012
It just seems like this team could really use some "erring on the side of caution" for once
Juiceboxjerry - February 13, 2012
There's erring on the side of caution
And there’s setting arbitrary dates for things with little information.
tuluse - February 13, 2012
Yeah, people seem to keep coming back with this "we don't know anything" stuff
and I’m not really sure why. Obviously the way they’ve been doing things hasn’t yielded the best results, so I’m not sure why “being cautious” would be an idea that’s scoffed at. With almost any injury, “time”, is very important in the healing process. It doesn’t take a genius to know that.
I’m not claiming to know more than the doctors or anyone else, but at the very least, I don’t see how it would hurt to have the players rest a while. It feels like they’ve been doing the exact opposite up until now, and that most certainly hasn’t worke
Juiceboxjerry - February 13, 2012
exactly
it sure as hell didnt hurt the mavs title run to sit kidd the last few weeks of the season to help him prep for the playoffs.
its not like our team (outside of rip) needs much time to mesh. everyone knows their roles and the plays. id say we rest everyone and get 100% healthy for the playoffs
sin - February 13, 2012
especially with the type of injuries Hamilton and Rose have
which can be hard to diagnose and hard to tell when the person is completely healed. It doesn’t take much to retweak a weak hamstring or back.
Basketball Smurf - February 13, 2012
I'm surprised at the Boozer hatred in the other thread
This is about as well he has played offense this entire year, and while his defense was bad, our half court defense seemed fine in this game, it was transition that was killing us. We can fix that just by not missing 2/3s of our shots.
CJ probably played the worst game he ever has as a Bull. Shooting poorly, defending poorly, turning the ball over frequently, too much dribbling. It was ugly to watch. I’m not too concerned though because well he is 2nd string for a reason and he has always played better than this.
Luol had a rough shooting night, but it seemed to me like was getting good shots. He was just missing shots he usually makes. So I’m just going to chalk this up to a cold streak. Though it could be his wrist hurting.
tuluse - February 13, 2012
We all overreacted, but it's Blogabull...what's new, right?
Brigade17 - February 13, 2012
He still had a a terrible game.
The late possession where he called a timeout with CJ wide open going to the basket, and his man Wilcox simply ran right by him 4 possessions in a row down the court and either got fouled or a basket. The stats say he had a good game but that’s only because he had his jumper working tonight.
Krandle - February 13, 2012
We would've gotten embarrassed if Boozer didn't play
Taj was trash. What did you want to see them do, trade for Dirk Nowitzki in the middle of the game?
Boozer was the least of our problems
Juiceboxjerry - February 13, 2012
yep, boozer was the only thing keeping the offense going
live, i was pissed they went away from him cause it was the only thing that was consistently working.
Jaina - February 13, 2012
Tonight had as little to do with his jumper than most any night of the season.
Dogfishhead - February 13, 2012
He was the only consistent part of the offense
Without him we lose by 30
T.Moore - February 13, 2012
And thats considering how badly Taj played yesterday
Ugh…
T.Moore - February 13, 2012
Deng was awful
Which caused CJ to have to force a lot of offense. I thought in the first half there was 4-5 drives that CJ was clearly hacked on but were no calls favoring Garnett and the Celtics….
CJ was ok. Rondo was on fire and Rondo > CJ, esp when he’s having one of his games.
majoyenrac - February 13, 2012
I feel like Deng's awful game is on CJ
There were multiple times when CJ would dribble for the first 15-20 seconds of the shot clock, then jack up a prayer or drive into a block. It’s the PGs job to get Deng involved, and CJ decided he would rather go 1 on 5. Deng was awful because CJ forced a lot of offense.
tuff-gong - February 13, 2012
yeah i mean he struggled shooting
but live i felt like he just wasn’t involved enough – not enough touches. i was calling for him to get the ball and when he did is when he got to the line. i did feel like cj was ignoring him though. and for awhile going to boozer was working and he eventually went away from that too.
Jaina - February 13, 2012
Deng started in Q1 0-6....
Or by early Q2 was 0-6 with 1 pt, well before halftime.
What’s CJ to do with that and with Brewer losing his touch again and reverting back to the old Ronnie (good to great d, little O).
majoyenrac - February 13, 2012
One more thing
What was with Thibs playing Lucas and CJ at the same time? Lucas sucks, sucks, sucks. The only reason he should be on the court is to give CJ a breather. I don’t understand having the two of them out there together at all.
tuluse - February 13, 2012
I think Thibs just wanted shooting on the floor, and another player that could ease the ballhandling burden from CJ
Not that I would know, but I’d imagine it can’t be too easy to basically be the only person that can dribble a basketball for two hours against a team like the Celtics
Juiceboxjerry - February 13, 2012
Im thinking maybe loul is pressing a bit from tge allstar nomination. Im sure its possible he’s second guessing his self out there or overthinking or trying to hard as opposed to the fame just coming to him. Esp with rose out and him feeling the need to set up as well.
Im adjust and just accept some of the irrational boozer hate. Im chalk it up to some fans just need somebody to hate.
What really irks me. Are folks who shit on our team just so they can say “see i told you so”. Fuck d howard, fuck melo, fuck everybody. I think this team can succeed and will succeed. And if or until they trade or sign someone, all you “i told you so” folks should cool it.
Rose2RipKaboom! - February 13, 2012 via Android app
dude, this is a forum and its an outlet for alot of us chicago fans...
even i get angry on our players (and ill admit im a pretty damn optimistic fan). Some people want mroe from the players and that’s understandable, but i do agree some people tend to say some stupid things and dont even back it up.
Geo4MVP - February 13, 2012
Has rose gotten hurt before every all star game he gas been in?
Seems like it.
gooses - February 13, 2012
Yes
because the all-star game is the same as every other regular game.
Gentleman Jim - February 13, 2012
Thibs Multiple Choice
a) painfully loyal
b) painfully stupid
c) both of the above
Paul Warfield - February 13, 2012
Honestly
Secret Option d) An awesome coach in most respects.
The guy missed the shot, what do you want him to say? “Well, Boozer missed the screen badly and then CJ chucked up some crap. The moron should have been patient and tried to run through another option.” You don’t throw players under the bus. Why do you think all the Bulls players want to go all out for Thibs all the time? Because as much as Thibs yells, screams, and cusses them out, he has not once thrown a player under the bus with the media. Heck, even when he could have called out Boozer’s shit defense and said that’s why he was sitting the end of games, he didn’t. You can nitpick something like this all you want, but I am happy Thibs stands up for the players at all times.
DRoseO1 - February 13, 2012
yeah, i agree
i think WE have to be painfully stupid to think that he doesn’t know what he’s saying. i’m sure he and cj will talk enough about that play – i’m glad he doen’t insult his players to the media.
Jaina - February 13, 2012
yeah, same with the injury nonsense
I’m trying my best not to even listen to Thibs. He’s full of shit, but for the benefit of his team.
your friendly BullsBlogger - February 13, 2012
the anti-skiles
kpd - February 13, 2012
I have always thought of him as the anti-Skiles
The man has a graduate degree in counseling. He is well educated and understands the psychology of motivation.
Skiles was a great tactician but his downfall was that he had no interpersonal skills whatsoever, whereas Thibs is consistently praised by former players he has worked with and how he handles players. We are truly blessed to have him as our coach.
slowmotion - February 13, 2012
i see him becoming the next greg pops in the future
Geo4MVP - February 13, 2012
jerry sloan might be a better comparison
pops and phil jackson were better player coaches as opposed to x and o. Not to say they werent good at the xs and os but more that their specialty came more from how they managed players. Jerry sloan was more of a a tactician.
piccolomair - February 13, 2012
uh... Dude Jerry Sloan was a complete asshole to his players
He is described as being a cruel petty man, and until he retired Karl Malone hated his guts.
I don’t see the comparison to Thibs because he is extremely good with his players. They all love playing for him, and I think it’s because he started with a background in psychology. One of his greatest strengths is how to handle people.
I agree with you that Sloan had a brilliant basketball IQ though. The comparison to Thibs in that respect is probably fair.
http://deadspin.com/241382/jerry-sloan-is-not-the-worlds-friendliest-man
slowmotion - February 13, 2012
im part too young to remember
and part never noticed, but did sloan throw players under the bus. I remember when the dwill thing happened, he just retired. Im not sure the entire team LOVES to play for thibs, but rose, deng, and noah…possibly due to having to deal with vdn for 2 years, do, and i think the rest of the team follows suits. Korver was on nba tv a while back and he alluded that sometimes playing for thibs wasnt easy….i think its more that the team is composed of well coachable hard working guys, as opposed to the fact that they all just love thibs. I think they all just want to win…
piccolomair - February 13, 2012
yes
I think that is an important distinction.
Paul Warfield - February 13, 2012
to be fair,
karl malone is a jack off
obnoxious american - February 13, 2012
Hello??
Of course he’s just playing the General who sticks up for his troops in public. The point is that when a player makes an obvious mistake, it’s ridiculous to pretend that he didn’t.
Does anyone believe that it would hurt team moral, or that CJ would be less motivated to play for Thibs if he had said: “Yes, that wasn’t the best decision on CJ’s part.”, or something along those lines?
Paul Warfield - February 13, 2012
What difference does it make what he tells you or the media?
Dr. Handsome, D.D.S. - February 13, 2012
Who gives a fuck what he says or doesn't say in a presser?
Especially given yfbb presupposition that he’s full of shit and other fatty food stuffs.
Dogfishhead - February 13, 2012
Everyone should, and here's why...
When a spokesman for an organization – whether a coach, military or political figure – obviously covers and dissembles, it erodes confidence in everything that they say.
What’s the point of even having press conferences if you can’t count on reasonably honest responses?
Paul Warfield - February 13, 2012
Well, I must be mistaken then.
Because I was under the assumption that it, 1.) didn’t matter what Thibs said about anything in a press conference. Because 2.) press conferences are an exercise in circle jerking and/or a place in which Rex Ryan gets to self-promote.
As for your first point though, that Thibs our valued spokesperson, has the capacity to “erode” much of anything via the press conference, I just can’t buy it or else I need to get more caffeinated. I mean, these are the stakes of a post-game conversation on CJ Watson, much less a post-game conversation on anything? He’s not a play-by-play guy or anything. He’s not held to conventions or objective standards in a press conference. Shit, I wish somebody would cover and or dissemble Niel Funk’s face. That guy fucking sucks. Thibs can evade anything he wants to. And. lastly, I regret having typed so much on a completely forgettable topic.
Dogfishhead - February 13, 2012
This is actually a good question, you should ask Stern
tuluse - February 13, 2012
bullshit is the point of press conferences. im not even being cynical
when was the last time you listened to an enlightening press conference? the 24 hour news cycle has reduced them to PR-by-numbers
paddyfairview - February 13, 2012
That's a fine opinion
But that’s simply not what you are going to get from Thibs. To address what you said above, yes, it might hurt team morale if he came down on CJ. What you have to realize about Thibs and the Bulls as a whole is that they are a team first (defense first) organization. Thibs will always disregard questions about individual play unless he can praise an individual. If the Bulls lose, it is going to be because the team didn’t execute or the team played poor defense and it will never be about an individual. Thibs has created a culture, which is extremely important. The Bulls culture puts the team before individuals and has a defense first mentality. Listen to any player interview after a game (Derrick in particular) and you will always hear guys talking up teammates and talking about how defense generated offense. This is not just a team, this is a culture, a lifestyle. It’s truly incredible to see a team united under the same principals like this. The postgame presser will always just be an outlet to perpetuate the culture that Thibs has created. If you dislike that, that’s perfectly ok. However, I love it because the culture Thibs has created has given the Bulls more wins in the past 102 games than they in the previous 2 full seasons combines.
DRoseO1 - February 13, 2012
Seriously what did you guys want the Bulls to do on that possession?
Obviously best case scenario is Thibs draws up some miracle play where Korver gets the ball for an open 3 with no time left on the shot clock, he hits it, we tie the game and go to OT.
Note that even in this unlikely dream situation, the Celtics still get the ball with 3 seconds left and a timeout, so assuming everything goes right on the Bulls end perfectly, the Celts have a pretty good opportunity to win the game outright anyway.
The real best case scenario is the Bulls try for a quick 3, leaving enough time for contingency plans in case the shot doesn’t go in. With no timeouts left, they need to extend the game, and the best way to do that is a quick shot and hope for the best.
Believe it or not, CJ is an excellent 3 point shooter. If anyone should take that shot, it is him or Kyle, and there is going to be a lot more defensive attention paid to Kyle.
Thibs was able to recognize this game situation immediately after Boozer called the boneheaded timeout, while it took me a full day to figure out what was going on. The play was designed, it wasn’t CJ going renegade. That’s why I love this man as a coach; he is absolutely brilliant when it comes to his bball IQ; his 20+ years of experience vs. VDN’s 0 are so apparent in situations like this.
This is also why I also don’t have a problem with CJ’s shot (outside his foot being on the line, which completely ruined Thibs’ strategy. The plan was solid, but execution was poor).
slowmotion - February 13, 2012
i don't have a problem with cj being the one to shoot
but the manner in which it was done was horrible.
course, i didn’t even see his foot on the line – i was kinda obscured by the assholes standing in front of me at the game heh.
Jaina - February 13, 2012
I agree that the execution was bad
But watch the play again, it wasn’t a bad idea by Thibs at all.
Boozer even rolls to the 3 point line after setting his off screen to try to free CJ, so they way the play was drawn up he was probably meant to be a second option in case CJ absolutely couldn’t get the shot off.
I think in CJ’s mind he thought he had to shoot there; even if it wasn’t a great shot it was better than any of the other options. I’d rather have CJ, shooting 46% from 3, take a fadeaway 3 than Boozer, who is 1 for 10 in his career, attempt a contested catch and shoot from the top of the circle.
slowmotion - February 13, 2012
yeah i don't know
i would have to see the replays. i am just picturing what happened live since that’s what i saw – and again my view was kinda obscured cause people were standing and shit and i didn’t see the play as well as people would have on tv. but it just really seemed like a bad idea.
Jaina - February 13, 2012
No it was NOT
“better” than the other options. You realize there was 26 seconds left on the game clock when the Bulls were in-bounding the ball, right?
CJ took a rushed shot as if it were only 3 secs left.
chicity773 - February 13, 2012
He shot it with 20 seconds
He could’ve gotten that same exact shot 15 seconds later. Why not at least try to run Korver off of a screen or set a pick for Watson to get him more open?
Poloplaya14 - February 13, 2012
Taking 15 seconds off the clock presents a huge strategic disadvantage for the Bulls
They have one chance to TIE, if they make the shot, and then Boston has a good chance to win. Even if they tie (best case scenario), they still have to beat Boston in OT which is unlikely seeing as how Boston was in control the entire game.
Shooting early is important because it gives the Bulls more opportunities to win with more possessions. Time is crucial at that point.
slowmotion - February 13, 2012
yea i didnt mind the quick shot itself
cuz i figured that was the reaosn for it, but i wish they had spent a second or two more to have korver take the shot, the shot korver took was just terrible, he wasnt behind the line, he wasnt balanced, he was contested and it was off the dribble. Korver even if contested probably had a better chance of knocking it down..
piccolomair - February 13, 2012
I disagree
At that point, if the Bulls miss, they essentially lose (unless they somehow get the rebound). So there’s not much of an advantage of missing earlier in the clock than later. On the other hand, if the Bulls make the shot, it’s better to leave the Celtics only 5 seconds than 15 seconds to make their final shot. This is all assuming the Bulls go for the 3. If they wanted to go for a quick 2, than yeah, they should have shot earlier, but they were clearly going for the 3.
Poloplaya14 - February 13, 2012
Also a pick was set for Watson, by Boozer
watch the play again. In retrospect I think Boozer rolled not as a second option, but in case CJ got doubled off the screener.
slowmotion - February 13, 2012
Please...
it doesn’t matter how good the plan was, it was terribly executed, and for no good reason. They had plenty of time to create a decent shot.
Paul Warfield - February 13, 2012
I agree that the plan was terribly executed
either Boozer needs to set a harder screen, or CJ needs to use the screen better.
I disagree that they had plenty of time to create a shot or there was no good reason for it. You’re putting all your eggs in one basket by holding the ball and waiting for something to develop, and frankly you’re not getting a good look at a 3 when the Celtics know that’s what you need and are defending the line.
If the Bulls shoot quick, even if they miss they can still get an offensive rebound, get a steal, immediately foul twice and hope the Celtics split, while they do something with their possessions etc. The quicker the play is executed, the more chances the Bulls have to make something happen.
slowmotion - February 13, 2012
How could they, when CJ went into his shooting motion EVERY Bulls player was BEHIND the 3 point line.
chicity773 - February 13, 2012
The Bulls aggressively crashed the boards when CJ's shot went up
Also the further away a shot is taken, the further it caroms off the rim in the case of a miss and the more likely opportunities are for offensive rebounds. Being behind the 3 point line when a shot is released does not preclude the opportunity for offensive rebounds.
slowmotion - February 13, 2012
Actually only one guy "crashed"
the boards and that was Luol. As soon as the shot went off he took off towards the rim.
chicity773 - February 13, 2012
I thought that Kyle dived towards the basket from the opposite elbow
Which is important because his area is the most likely space a rebound would fall. I could be wrong on that though.
slowmotion - February 13, 2012
Kyle, Lu, and Boozer all went for the offensive rebound
While Lucas rotated to the open spot on the floor, opposite elbow from CJ, taking Kyle’s spot on the arc.
If the Bulls grab a rebound there, Thibs may have instructed them to kick it back to Lucas for another quick 3 attempt rather than scramble for a quick two.
If CJ’s shot wasn’t short and fallen to the only spot the Bulls didn’t send a man, they could’ve gotten two attempts to tie instead of one. Lucas was open after the rebound. Pretty cool stuff, I’m in awe of Thibs right now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3vIXUBKUdg
slowmotion - February 13, 2012
c'mon...
a) if wishes were horses…
b) I’d rather have the first shot be a good one, and so would every sane coach
Paul Warfield - February 13, 2012
Of course you'd rather have the first shot be a good shot over a bad shot
That was not the issue at all. I’m not suggesting the Bulls plan was to intentionally take a bad shot, miss, and have Lucas take a better shot. If you really believe this is what I’m trying to say you’re completely missing the point.
Lucas was a contingency plan, giving the Bulls an extra opportunity.
The issue we’re talking about is the quickness of the shot, and I’m suggesting there were reasons for that. THIS is a strawman argument.
slowmotion - February 13, 2012
please...
no coach, reviewing that play, would argue as you have, that CJ did the right thing. He didn’t. He forced up a terrible shot, and should not have.
You can theorize all you like about how finely the play was designed, or what might have happened if this or if that, but all of that is irrelevant. When a play doesn’t unfold properly, it’s up to the players to adjust intelligently. CJ failed to do so.
Paul Warfield - February 13, 2012
Actually no one is arguing that CJ screwed up the play
I have agreed 100% on that. I see where you’re coming from Warfield, and you’re opinion is valid; all I’m trying to say is that the idea was a good one, the execution was flawed
slowmotion - February 14, 2012
I think you're the one arguing against a strawman
nobody is arguing that they shouldn’t have taken a quick shot. However, when that quick shot wasn’t there, it was on CJ to pull the ball down and find something else. When he failed to do that, it was a mistake on his part. There may have been other considerations that went into that mistake (Boozer’s bad pick, the coach wanting to shoot quickly) but when executing the play, CJ failed to make the necessary adjustments. The shot was terrible. CJ had a bad game but will bounce back. The end.
Basketball Smurf - February 13, 2012
Actually many people have argued that the quick shot was problematic
but at this point, agree to disagree I guess. Who really knows what Thibs was thinking at the time. At least it’s fun to speculate.
slowmotion - February 14, 2012
I said "crashed"
Luol is still the only one who truly “crashed” there. Boozer and Kyle kind of slowly jogged toward the paint. But the Celtics were in much better position.
chicity773 - February 13, 2012
It boggles my mind...
that anyone would be defending that choice of shot.
Paul Warfield - February 13, 2012
Mine too.
You want to score quickly. Not for the player to throw up some rushed trash, that was CJ shot.
chicity773 - February 13, 2012
also, LOL at that picture/caption
they showed that on the big screen at the game at one point and my husband i were just like… uhhhh
Jaina - February 13, 2012
its ok, the alien deserves some love, right?
Geo4MVP - February 13, 2012
if deng got surgery
.what’s the time frame?
Belize - February 13, 2012 via mobile
out for the season brah!
3-4 month recovery period…
Geo4MVP - February 13, 2012
damn
No bueno
Belize - February 13, 2012 via mobile
I wasn't feeling the C.J. Watson JL III line-up.
I think it’s a stupid fucking idea and I have no idea why Thibs seems so averse to playing Jimmy when the game is not already firmly decided. I mean, it’s nice that JLIII can handle the ball, but if that’s the only justification for having the guy in, then, let’s go ahead and get somebody else who can handle the ball (which should be the floor of any point guard) and do something else. Dude’s a chucker who is shooting under 40% from the field.
With that said, he is the team’s third point guard—I have to keep reminding myself of that. And we seem to be a bit handcuffed. Obviously the guy is getting PT because he has to, there’s no one else to take the PT right now, which is why having BOTH Rip and Derrick out is so troublesome. I’m starting to get more worried about the Rip injury (not as much as Derrick’s back issue, for obvious reasons) and the prospect of ever having him fully healthy.
Dogfishhead - February 13, 2012
ordinarily i'd defend thibs by saying he has to stick with system guys, it's his whole schtick as a coach
but JLIII is so ineffective I dont know what he sees in him. He’s good for about 5 mpg during which we inevitably slip
paddyfairview - February 13, 2012
I thought Thibs was concerned about ball pressure and floor spacing
which is why he went with JLIII
Basketball Smurf - February 13, 2012
yea
if the celtics threw a trap at cj, hed be dead. Its bad enough when they do it to rose, cj wouldnt stand a chance
piccolomair - February 13, 2012
Yeah I think you're right, which is why JLIII
has to play. It’s his only redeemable quality: he can handle. But, again, if you have a point guard with suspect handles he shouldn’t be a point guard. I think this is what I’m lamenting. You have to play JLIII all injuries considered.
Dogfishhead - February 13, 2012
Lucas actually did way more than expected and had 2 3-pointers
which kinda overshadowed why it was an awful idea.
I get the guard shortage, but then play more Butler and slide Korver at the 2. They could hide him against Bradley or Dooling
your friendly BullsBlogger - February 13, 2012
Good recap
At the extent of losing a million BaB power points, is there really any question that Rondo is better than Luol Deng? I mean, was that really Rondo’s motivation? I thought it was a general F-U to D.Rose, look at me-statement games but him going after Deng makes more sense. I didn’t notice the hand tug during the game but it makes sense – the Pacers, Heat and every other playoff team will be doing the same when the games matter.
Basketball Smurf - February 13, 2012
i think its arguable
its not like the fans picked luol deng over rondo, it was the coaches. But i did also see the FU to rose in there, but sort of a cowardly one. A big part of why he went off had to come with the confidence that rose wouldnt be in the game to show him up, so in his mind rondo probably (and presumably correctly) assumed he was the bests guard on the floor and wanted to show it.
I was thinking afterwards how cool it would have been to have kept rose active but not play him, and then at the end for that last 2 min mark stretch thibs couldve thrown him out there….that wouldve been epic, boston fans wouldve panicked, the team wouldve panicked, rondo wouldve panicked, and rose would be one poohdini move away from icing the game…..todays headline would have been “rose defeats celtics in two minutes”
piccolomair - February 13, 2012
lol, i actually said that in the other thread
how even if he could barely move it would have been a mindfuck just to even put him in the game.
Jaina - February 13, 2012
couldn't be worse than jl3.
OTOH, don’t want the Celtics thinking they’re that important.
Osaka - February 13, 2012 via mobile
heh, yeah
actually i told my celtics fans friends, since i have plenty, that the celtics should be ashamed of themselves that they only won by four. the bulls sucked.
Jaina - February 13, 2012
Rondo only put up those numbers because CJ was so bad yesterday.
Deng had an off game. Did you see the numbers from Rondo’s game against the Raptors? Everyone has off games.
Not sure how you missed the take though, they called the foul and showed replays.
Osaka - February 13, 2012 via mobile
Deng immediately looked at his wrist after the play. Scared me for a second.
I doubt Rondo did that on purpose because of the injury…looked to me like he was more just trying to get away with one knowing that Deng could post him up rather easily. He is a little shit though, so I guess I shouldn’t put it past him.
Hopefully Rose is healthy for Thursday’s game and he puts Rondo back in his place.
bleigh82 - February 13, 2012
nah, i think rose is out for two weeks. I dont think hell back till after the all star game.
Geo4MVP - February 13, 2012
I didn't see the Rondo hang-tug on Luol
Was it a classic Rondo cheapshot? Anybody have a link? Couldn’t find one.
Brooklyn Bulls - February 13, 2012
it was one of the last plays, he was called for a foul
didn’t look intentional, Deng was fighting for position and rondo grabbed his arm/wrist as he fell backwards.
But then again I’ll imply it was intentional because it was Rondo.
your friendly BullsBlogger - February 13, 2012
Hollinger is still bitching via twitter about Deng being picked over Rondo
Can someone tell him the coaches put him there, and more importantly, its just a damn all star game! It doesnt matter at all! It is just nice for a player to get some recognition…this is a really dumb thing to care about
Brigade17 - February 13, 2012
quite honestly, deng should have been an all star last yr. Fuck u hollinger!
Geo4MVP - February 13, 2012
always awesome when some random data seems to confirm an idiot's lunacy.
obnoxious american - February 13, 2012
also he was going on about the games missed thing
rondo missed more!
Jaina - February 13, 2012
his OCD over PER is really fuckin annoying
Geo4MVP - February 13, 2012
no shit
it’s ridiculous that he’s picking on deng about this whole thing. i’m not offended that he wouldn’t have picked deng, but it’s dumb that he is singling him out for no reason. there are plenty of arguments to be made for and against guys who both did and did not make it. but the coaches picked perfectly reasonable candidates imo for the most part.
Jaina - February 13, 2012
yup, im pretty sure that bastard is narcissistic and believes his superior analysis surpasses the coaches
ill bet that bastard wouldnt last a yr coaching a team. Hell be worse than VDN.
Geo4MVP - February 13, 2012
sorry, "superior analysis"
Geo4MVP - February 13, 2012
also i mean he's totally missing the point
acting like it was this “line” between the 7 and 8 games that deng and rondo missed respectively. WTF? that’s not why. how bout complaining about them selecting a guy who came from a team who’s won 8 games? or joe johnson over jsmoov? rondo would have been a reasonable selection over the other GUARDS imo (iguodala too) on the roster – it just didn’t work out that way. i get why they picked pierce over him – pierce is the one who picked the celtics up from the dregs of the league, not rondo.
and his argument about bad picks coming from coaches who think they owe good teams more than one star or whatever – well he already hated rose for MVP, so honestly, who the fuck cares at this point. sometimes i think he’s trolling the bulls.
Jaina - February 13, 2012
*not that pierce is directly competing with rondo for a spot either
but if coaches were thinking they shouldn’t reward the celtics with more the one player
Jaina - February 13, 2012
No he's a salesman for PER
Don’t look behind the curtain, no conflict of interests here.
tuluse - February 13, 2012
what bothers me is that he is ignoring the biggest thing
in Deng’s favor and the biggest knock on PER – defense. If he were a bit more honest about that point, I’d have no problem with his opinion. But he should at least acknowledge Deng is in for defense as much as anything.
Basketball Smurf - February 13, 2012
They don't play the same position, either.
Rondo has to beat out the other guards, not Deng.
Tim S. - February 13, 2012
Not entirely true
There are two wildcard spots at the end, which is how both Deng and Iguodala got in.
Poloplaya14 - February 13, 2012
how do you know?
or are you just going by the way they were announced on tv?
also i mean it’s not like he was only put as a wildcard on everyone’s ballots. i’m sure he got votes at the forward spot, and iguodala could have gotten votes at either the guard or forward spot i’d imagine.
Jaina - February 13, 2012
(and rondo could have been on the same ballots as either or both of them!)
Jaina - February 13, 2012
I didn't say Deng was the wildcard, just that one of them had to be
So Rondo could’ve possibly made it at Dengs expense.
Poloplaya14 - February 13, 2012
I think he directly questioned the coaches
and he writes about basketball for living. You care as much as he does LOLZ
your friendly BullsBlogger - February 13, 2012
I have no comeback for the truth :(
Brigade17 - February 13, 2012
man, that makes me feel pretty bad, because as we all know john hollinger has this whole basketball thing pretty much figured out and there are very few contestable issues remaining in the field
TheMoon - February 13, 2012
Fuck Rondo?
BullsFan22 - February 13, 2012
If Deng is out for the rest of the season...we be fucked.
BullsFan22 - February 13, 2012
Man, the Bulls would win if they could just make 75% of their layups.
Can we bring back Dalibor Bagaric to mob them near the basket, and teach them to go up strong and dunk the fucking ball?
cubbybear - February 13, 2012
Taj and Asik's lack of finishing will save JR a few millions over the next couple of summers
it is often said, but I don’t know if either is starter caliber (especially Asik) unless you are starting them next to a truly great player.
Basketball Smurf - February 13, 2012
at least
Taj finishes strong SOMETIMES…Asik never finishes in traffic. He either gets stripped or he misses the shot. I’ve mentally trained myself to realize that’s the only outcome of O getting the ball inside. It’s pretty pathetic.
NormVanBeer - February 13, 2012
Can we also bring back Wennington and Longley??
Not only could they dunk, but they could shoot the ball as well!!
BullsFan22 - February 13, 2012
Rose MRI is ok, no structural damage, just muscle tightness, needs massage
Trey23 - February 13, 2012
I'll get some call girls on the phone and...
oh, you meant a real massage. Right…
And you’re supposed to link this kind of information. Otherwise it sounds like a lie.
Dr. Handsome, D.D.S. - February 13, 2012
Ah, I got it.
Link sauce.
Quote sauce:
Dr. Handsome, D.D.S. - February 13, 2012
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