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Sixers 98, Bulls 82 - Bulls see something resembling themselves, and don't like how it looks

The Sixers impressive start to the season leading to their league-best point differential has been undoubtedly helped by their easy schedule. But while they may not be yet amongst the league's best, they proved to the Bulls that they're certainly quite good. And more interestingly, a bit of a matchup problem.

A lot was made during the home telecast of the mirror image the Bulls were looking at all night, in that the Doug Collins-led squad was built to defend and hustle on every possession just like the Bulls are known for. But while the Bulls have advantages in shotblocking, scheme, and discipline, the Sixers excel in creating havoc on the perimeter. Using Jrue Holiday and Lou Williams speed, and supplemented by their athletic, long wings, they were able to harass Derrick Rose farther out from the basket than most teams can try while also being able to close out and frustrate the Bulls shooters. The Bulls 2-3 spots were manned by backups Ronnie Brewer and Kyle Korver (yes, I was quite proud of my pre-game tweet), and while they started out hot a combined 5-6 shooting, after 5:42 in the first quarter they combined for 3-10 the rest of the way. Even Korver's makes were long twos, as the Sixers knew to run him off the 3-point line.

The result of that aggressiveness on defense was not only 17 turnovers, but the even worse Sixers-forced turnover. Those same guards and wing finishers, led by Andre Iguodala (also a 'starter' of the fast break, with 2 steals that felt like 9) can run out and make you pay, and in total had 29 points of turnovers in the game. Even in a 4th quarter where Thibs waived the ginger flag and the CJ Watson-helmed unit earned the Bulls some momentum into reducing their deficit, the Sixers would force another turnover and either finish or get fouled, or both.

Derrick Rose single-handedly kept the game close in the first half, looking as outstanding as he had in his previous three 30-point efforts when driving for 8 of the last 10 Bulls points to pull them within 5 to end the 2nd quarter. But outside of that, and for much of the abysmal 11-point third where the Rose-Watson combination was given a try, it'd usually be a long jumper with little second opportunity. Even without two key bigs (Hawes and Vucevic), the Sixers kept the Bulls to an abysmal (especially for them) 20% Offensive Rebound Rate, while allowing the Sixers to get over 27% of the misses on their offensive end. Starting Center Tony Battie had zero of the Sixers defensive rebounds (and it's bad to be Kurt Thomas without the rebounding, yikes), so if you look up and down the boxscore it was again those big, lengthy, and fast Sixers wings who made the difference. And another facet of the game where Deng and Hamilton's absences loomed large.

You'd hope that especially without those two, the Bulls frontcourt could provide production. However, Joakim Noah must've seen his paycheck pre-game as he had only 2 points in his 27 minutes. Boozer fared a bit better and actually made some attempt to score at the rim tonight, but his defense was so atrocious that it was focused on by both the in-game and post-game TV crews. And it made sense, as the Sixers themselves were disciplined enough (10 TOs, and best in the league at that) to focus on it all night as well: often forcing Boozer to move his feet to defend the pick and roll with hilarious/sad results. And if it came to stopping the ball or defending the rim in transition, it was best to just avert your eyes. Plus, I swear I think the mic picked up more of his annoying screams than usual...but maybe I was just biased by the especially-poor performance.

This is why Boozer's held to such a high standard (or just a standard) when it comes to his point output and location: he has to be a plus offensively to mitigate his bad defense. He shot poorly but did have decent production (9 and 9 in 27 minutes), but with both sides of the ball suffering with the Bulls starters out, he has to do more. Noah at least gets some of a pass because he's working on defense not only on his guy but covering for Booz. I mean, Lavoy Allen had 15 points for the Sixers. I honestly did not know who that was, and I'd like to think I keep up on these sorts of things.

Bright side in all of this was that, as mentioned above, Thibs didn't push his starters too much for a lost cause (and Jimmy Butler looks good in lost-cause action, I must say). Rose, Noah, and Boozer were all around 30 minutes tonight and should have both fresh legs and a bad taste in their mouths heading into New York tomorrow. The Knicks may present some different problems, but at least we know the Bulls won't be encountering a stout and in-your-face defense. The Bulls didn't look too great tonight when seeing that effort brought on them for a change.

2 recs  |  248 comments

Comments

Noah

can’t get a pass. When the sixers went small Young worked Joakim like he was rookie. Allen scored not just on Boozer but Taj as well. NONE of the bigs on the weak side stepped up to cut off penetration to the rim especially after Philadelphia ball handlers turned the corner on pick and roll.

They played bad, nothing has changed.
Please tell us more

Like how Dwight wouldn’t help us and how boozer taking jumpers all day is a good thing.

shouldnt you be preparing for the ultimate pregame thread?

i expect alot outta this the knicks vs bulls pregame!

Oh god no...
its gonna be fireworks!!
its going up very soon!!
so they've always played bad?
Who the fuck is this Lavoy Allen

why did we get torched by an unknown player?!! GAH!

Lavoy Allen is a 4 year starter (I believe) from Temple University. He’s a really skilled basketball player, but doesn’t have much explosion or speed. I make the comparison to a Greg Monroe type, but not as much athleticism. He’s a solid, intelligent, player that gets the most out of his game but will never be a superstar.

If Boozer played to his potential

I don’t think we would be hearing all of the Howard speculation. Boozer’s inconsistent play along with Noah’s (except for the past 10 games, excluding tonight’s clunker).

im sort of lucky

i had a feeling we would lose this one just because the current roster is so highly dependant on rose, more than usual, to the point where i dont think rose can continue playing like how he did against miami. Not only that, but i learned about the bulls loss, and five minutes later learned of the heats collapse, which to me is by far worse. We played an actual good team and just were outmatched due to our injuries, they played a centerless team, had a lead, had a healthy roster, and just fumbled it.

Im begining to think the heat are more like the celtics when they won their championship (meaning they are really really good) and share a weakness of incapability of sustaining their high level of play for 4 quarters. The celtics were known to have at least one bad quarter, and not just bad, but dreadful quarter…so they had to really level their opponents right off the bat to sustain the eventual bad 3rd or 4th quarter….

i think the heat are like that as well

e.g. heat losing to the bucks

they got kileld in the 4th Q.

Bulls are struggling against good teams, and it's a concern

You can say that Deng and Rip are out. But both guys will be out for more than a few more games. And since we lost Deng, the Bulls are 2-3. Two wins against bad teams, three losses against good teams. The Milwaukee fucking Bucks just Jennings’d a win against the Heat after we couldn’t beat them. We got out-Skiles’d by the Pacers and Bucks.

I really hate to say it, but some move might need to be made. We aren’t looking like the team we had last year and quite frankly havn’t looked like that team much this season. The struggles against winning teams is one example of that.

i wouldnt say its a concern (as of right now)

we lost to the griz with a good chunk of players injured, lost to the hawks after a long road trip, and lost to . If they struggled with Deng back in the lineup, then I would be kinda concerned.

I think winning against good teams is really an overrated record. The mavs last yr as well as the heat record against winning teams wasnt that good. Multiple teams in the past who won the title never had the best record against “winning” teams. Not saying its a useless record, but I think you are putting too much value into it.

true last year's finals teams didn't have excellent marks against top competition

But we already aren’t the favorite, Miami was the favorite last year. I could be wrong, but I feel we need to perform better against winning teams than they did, because we need more wins than they do, because we need home court more than they do.

lets give the bulls a chance with deng healthy (knock on wood) and i would say by end of feb, well see how we r against good teams
we beat the bucks though...
I think he meant 76ers
He's saying after we couldn't beat the Heat.
i was referring to
We got out-Skiles’d by the Pacers and Bucks.
just cause i love rehashing this argument especially after games like tonight

iggy deng or gay?

personally i have deng 3rd out of that group

tbh, you can say gay and deng are almost equal

i would give the slight edge to deng over gay b/.c of his defense. Iggy stats are below both deng and gay, but not by much. Deng on the other hand was starting to do alot better and his stats would be betetr if it wasnt for the injury.

ill put deng in one, but only by a slight amount over gay...

besides tonight, iggy hasnt been as good as i have seen him before.

I honestly don't see how you have Gay and Iggy over Deng

oh wait, your scoring SF fetish…

you dont think in terms of over all package athleticism and health

that iggy and gay are both better than deng?

deng is a great defender but his offensive repertoire is lacking while gay and iggy are both good offensive players and capable defenders as well

I think you're really splitting hairs between the three
depends what you want

Gay is more athletic and better at getting his own shot, Iggy is a better facilitator, and Deng is the best all around player.

so I’d take Deng.

Athleticism and health yes

overall package Deng is first, easily

Athleticism only matters if you actually use to actually be better

Deng is actually a touch more efficient than Gay, a better defender, rebounder, turns the ball over less (!), and Thibs has a man crush on him.

Iguodala is the best perimeter defender in the NBA.

Hmm, he's certainly right near the top

Lebron, Tony Allen, and I think I’d put Lu in there, would all have to be in the conversation

It's Tony Allen in my opinion
Gay vs Deng is a tough one

not a big fan of Iggy’s shot selection and jumpshot

you could make an argument for any of the 3

if i needed a 1st or 2nd scorer, I’d choose Gay. If I needed a versatile wing defender and competent scorer, I’d choose Deng. If I needed someone who could kind of just be an all purpose garbage man and kind of a wild card on the floor to disrupt other teams, I’d choose Iggy.

Iggy is the most complete of the three and the guy I'd take.

He’s a fantastic defender, Lebron-level athlete and a great player on the break. Deng is more well-rounded and defensive minded than Gay, but Gay is the better scorer. I could go either way on those two guys.

Agree. It all depends on what your team needs. If you want a lockdown defender no doubt it’s Iguodala. Plus you have to take into account his passing, he’s been great this year and last year creating in the open court.

most complete of the 3?

he shoots like 30% outside of 3 feet.

He's a 32.6 percent pt shooter over his career, with 2.7 attempts per game. (Deng is 32.4% on 2.6)

Of the three guys, he’s got the best handles, passing and open court game, though Rudy is breathtaking on the break as well. He’s the best and strongest athlete of the group and with all due respect to Lt. Deng, he’s possibly a better defender as well. Iggy can play the point, take guys off the dribble, post up a little bit. He brings more to the table than Deng or Gay and in my opinion is clearly better than either one of them.

not what i'm saying.

three feet. not three point shots.

check hoopdata. deng kills him at pretty much every location except at rim, and three pointers. outlier is that this season he is shooting 60% from 10-15 feet, since he hasn’t shot better than 31% there in his career until now.

(compounded with the fact that deng is shooting poorly from 10-15)
Maybe it has to do with the fact that Iggy

has always been miscast as a go to scorer in Philly and has had to put up shots that he isn’t good enough to be making. Up until last season when Doug Collins arrived, they were asking him to play like Lebron and be a franchise type player. He was shooting shots he simply couldn’t make. When I watched Iggy in the FIBA games playing as a complimentary piece and not as that guy, it was crazy how good he looked. He was off on the breaks, cutting to the hoop, hitting open J’s when his guy was helping, playing insane defense, etc. If we were to have him instead of Lu, we’d be better off for it IMO.

But Lu’s a really good player too, so it’s not like I’m complaining about him.

i was just arguing that he's not more complete.

luol is a flat out better shooter than he is from pretty much all ends of the floor. now whether you’d take him over deng because he could fit into a role better, is not the same thing.

I'm saying that it's not necessarily true that Lu is a better shooter.

Here’s the breakdown for their shooting from different areas with numbers from this season and last season.

(This year %, Last year %, Two years ago5)
At Rim
Iggy: 72, 72.6,68.5
Deng: 62.8, 66.6, 61.2
-Iggy shoots 3 per game, Lu roughly 4.

3-9 Feet
Iggy: 33.3, 27.7, 34.7
Deng: 34.9, 44.4, 47.3
-Iggy shoots 0.6 attempts per game, Lu roughly 2.

10-15 Feet
Iggy: 60, 27.9, 29.
Deng: 20, 28.6, 39.
-Each shoots 1 per game.

16-23 Feet
Iggy: 34,37,39.
Deng: 37,40,40.
-Iggy shoots 4, Deng shoots 5.

Threes
Iggy: 38.6, 33.7, 31.
Deng: 34, 34.5, 38.6
- Each shoots about three.

I only see a real big advantage in Lu’s favor in the 3-9 foot range, and neither shoots there very often anyways. I could reasonably argue that given Lu’s role on his team compared to Iggy’s, Deng gets more open looks than Iggy and therefore really isn’t a better shooter, it’s just that he gets cleaner looks playing off the ball. The numbers bear that out, as Iggy’s AST% is double that of Lu’s, as he’s often there primary creator and ball-handler and has to shoulder the load on offense, at times.

You're crazy (but we all already knew that).

At the very least, Deng > Gay, and I’d have to say Deng is better than Iguodola as well.

the bulls have an underwhelming record against really good eastern teams. of course

the opposite was true last year, so its not clear how much that really matters.

i think the most pressing worries are: 1) literally half the eastern playoff teams seem like they were built specifically to exploit the bulls’ vulnerability (that they only have one ball handler and hes 6’3’’), 2) the bulls have very shaky 3 pt shooting and 3) their highly talented ORBers seem to have an equally formidable talent for not grabbing ORBs against really good teams.

also, thibs got thibsed today.

Yeah, I think the East is better than people are giving it credit for

I still think we’d fuck up the Pacers, but the Hawks and Sixers are legit. Also, we’re not as good as the juggernaut that we’re being made out to be Nationally. With all our guys healthy, we’re a VERY good team, but I don’t think it’s a great team. I just think people have to be a bit more realistic. We’re as good as anybody, and we can beat anyone in a seven game series, but there’s quite a few teams that could take us out as well

i think this team can be great, but again, its the matter of having a healthy team

we need rip rested, no more ocming back prematurely during the healing process. If need be, this team needs to think about getting anothe scorer to compliment the bench mob. particularly a 6th man imo would put us over the top.

Rumors are JR SMith agent is talking to the bulls (from around the horn per Woody Paige), if this is true, paxson must sign him asap! If i were paxson, i would tell Smith “we will sign you to vet min for now, but next yr, we will sign you to a 4 yr deal.” Kinda like “verbal agreement” alluding to next yr. Of course, other teams would also offer smith a contract, but at this pt, all contending teams can only offer vet min. Somewhere maybe around 8 mill a yr is def a fair contract. Thsi would mean the bulls would have to give up brewer and korver, but for a player caliber like JR Smith, i wouldn’t miss them.

Pretty much agree

Although, I’d go so far as to say that I only see one team the Bulls would lose to in a seven game series, and that’s the Heat. The Bulls are way too good defensively and have enough scoring to get by when healthy. Having the reigning MVP doesn’t hurt either. Rip Hamilton is very underrated. The offense looks about 8 million times better when he is in the lineup, even if he is scoring like shit. He isn’t an isolation scorer, but he is so good coming off screens and then making a quick decision to either shoot, pass, or penetrate off the dribble. Rip also prevents teams from switching a bigger defender on to Rose. Ronnie Brewer is honestly not much more of a threat than Bogans. Even when shooting well, he is so slow off the dribble and takes forever to get his shot off that you can just play help when guarding him. If you switch out Brewer and Hamilton, the Bulls offense would look much better.

The defense is a bit concerning right now, but Boozer was simply awful last night, so I’ll just chalk it up to him.

dude, im tellin u, deng is the anchor of this defense, not noah

he literally HIDES boozers deficiency on defense. Deng does a very good job not inly on the SF hes guarding but he can ded guard the pf. The defense is not as good with deng out and we need deng healthy asap (knock on wood).

Ok, but how many more times does Philly have to convincingly beat us for us to say "Hmm, maybe they could beat us in the playoffs"

I mean, I’m not one of those people that buys into regular season wins completely, but they have straight beat us down the last three times we’ve played them. Yesterday their defense basically made us quit. I don’t buy into the idea that we didn’t bring enough energy. It’s a serious concern at this point imo.

absolutely. forget a title; its going to be an absolute dogfight just to make it to round 3.
Meh

Maybe I am just overconfident, but I just don’t see Philly as a big hurdle if healthy. To answer your question, if they beat us with all of the following people in our lineup: Rose,Hamilton,Boozer,Noah,CJ,Taj,Asik, and at least one of Korver or Brewer, then I’ll be nervous. I honestly believe no Hamilton hurt a ton yesterday, especially given that Korver can’t dribble and Brewer is so slow offensively. Even if they beat us without Deng, but we have all of our other core players, then I’ll get concerned.

I am a bit concerned now, but not entirely.

just make it happen

stop giving me false hope!!!
Lookin Sexy!!!
Wont happpen

He wants to go to the Nyets. His buddy Keith Bogans is over there

hes gonna roll with keith!!
"character issues"

-gar

Dwight Howard sure filled out that Kirk Hinrich jersey well.
he probably will have to change his number to play here
Oh man, losing to the Knicks would suck soooooooooooooooooooooo bad
Is Baron going to be playing?
Nope, not from what I've been reading

Not til next week

they said he wants to make a big splash in his debut

going up against Drose is suicide. It will probably against some scrub team with a scrub pg

the fear I have

is kyle and ronny not being able to contain melo, and boozer vs amare(but I think that may be a wash, amare is not really able to stop boozer

wait, didnt they say deng will be back by tonight?
I thought it was the bucks game
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/chi-hamilton-deng-out-vs-76ers-20120201,0,533340.story

not really, he might be back tonight

ahh, thanks. I feel much better.

lets hope he is the same deng.

his non-shooting arm is injured

i think hell be fine. If anything, he should have fresh legs tonight.

i'd let carmelo jab step his way to 40

if the bulls shut down everyone else.

They do have Amare Stoudamire and we have Carlos Boozer

not a sound strategy

eh, put noah on amare and boozer on tyson.

tyson still can’t shoot, right? i haven’t been paying attention. and for christ’s sake, if boozer can’t hang 25 on stoudemire..

Boozer doesn't hang 25 on anybody.

Even when he’s scoring 25, it’s not on anybody. It’s off of jumpers when guys trap Derrick on the PnR.

sin won't stfu about it
When Boozer gave up that wide open dunk/lay-in

and was just standing there on the other side of the key, I punched a wall. True story. And my hand still hurts because of it.

If Carlos Boozer suffered a season-ending injury tonight against New York, I’d celebrate, and I’m not kidding in the slightest way. I’d hit up Cuvee and buy bottles for the whole fucking place, max out my credit cards, whatever, even if the Bulls lost by 25 and DRose posted 8 points, 2 assists and 7 turnovers. I don’t care anymore, I never wanna see Boozer play for the Bulls again.

wow, thats going to far

im not going to argue bout booz nor defend him but thats just harsh.

It's plays like that

Which convinces me you can’t win a title with Boozer as your starting pf.

When I heard Shaq say it ~ 1 month ago,

I thought he might be just being Shaq and going over the top, but he’s spot on. I know I’m not crazy with this Boozer stuff, plenty of people on this site see it, as do all my friends. When I mention the name Boozer, nobody really has anything positive to say. The best people can come up with “he is what he is and it’s not worth complaining.” Well, that’s bullshit.

Not cool to risk an injury on anyone

Period…(Unless it’’s Foster)

Too far with the injury stuff. Stay classy.
lol

at Noah looking at his paycheck pregame.

We continue to have issues with long, fast, athletic squads. I don’t feel anyone should get a pass for last night. It was one big collective pile of shit…players to coaches.

That team is basically our worst nightmare from a matchup standpoint

I think people need to take a deep breath here, and look at the big picture. The Pacers game sucked, but we were right in it with a passive, hurting Derrick and no Luol. I’d bet my life that we’d beat those guys in the playoffs. The Heat game sucked, but again, we were in their building, and without Lu. Also, they’re the fucking Heat, we all knew it would be hard to beat them, nothing has changed.

Now, the Sixers loss was scary, but like I said, they are a matchup nightmare, PLUS we didn’t have two starters. We’re still gonna be right in the thick of things come playoff time if we’re healthy. No time to panic yet. Now, if we lose to the Knicks….

preview from the preview I'm writing for Saturday:

the worst team we’ve lost to so far is Indiana. That’s pretty good.

Boozer

will be fine once Deng or Hamilton come back. Neither Brewer or Korver are better passers than Deng and Hamilton. So that’s means less ball movement and less skilled offensive players the defense has to actively guard. Taj is a better finisher and defender than Boozer but doesn’t have one move go to move in the post yet and he probably won’t ever develop one. Boozer is the better shooter, passer and just as effective defensive rebounder.

*one go to move in the post

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