Deng scores a lot of lowkey scrappy points. Boozer and Noah don’t at all. Half of Deng’s points come off cutting, slicing, and o-boards. You can tell Deng is the only player not named Rose that he completely trusts.
He seems to have lost so much on his vertical. He used to be the guy that not only tipped every ball, but was able to ELEVATE around the basket to get easier layups/dunks. Even on defense, he’s only contesting shots he used to block.
He seems to have lost that jump recently and it’s made him worthless
He’s always been an underrated athlete, and that part of his game is all but gone. on putbacks, or catches near the basket he has to gather himself like Omer to try and dunk the ball, where he used to be able to quickly bounce up and throw it down. This is most certainly something physical, he can’t be the same player he used to be
we’re watching every Bulls game, obviously Drose looks like MVP to us. But if you just catch a few games and see the stats being put up, James and Durant are strong cases.
And I noticed that the Heat have 'only' played 4 games in the last 10 days...
…while the Bulls don’t have 3 days off all season until April 22-24, just before the last 2 games of the regular season?? (Unless I counted wrong, except for what I assume must be the All-Star break the last week of February, when the Bulls get 5 days off and the Heat 6.)
Although, it may work out for the better to start the playoffs with a lighter schedule at the end of the season, between @Miami, Dallas, @Indiana.
I really don't see the harm in giving Butler some of Deng's minutes and Brewers. He might
make some mistakes here and there, but not enough to be a true detriment to the team. He’ll gain some needed experience, and give those two some rest, which would make them fresher for the game. More energy from Deng and Brewer = higher chance of success.
good depth, great guard play, everyone knows their roles, and unlike the Bulls, everyone is contributing. No D. Rose on that team, though. Tough 2nd round out for whoever they play.
it makes me wish we had got Jamal Crawford. I’m still waiting to give Rip a chance, but when this team plays, you see how much they need another creator on the team.
everyone was complaining about jamal’s deficiencies on defense and what not but we already have such a strong defensive team that the only thing we are really missing is another guy who can create his own shot and offense.
I let the first game go by because it was Kobe, but I noticed that defensively, he was way over-hyped. Honestly, I kind of don’t mind him missing time right now because we need a fresh player for late in the season, but the fact he has missed more than he’s played is quite concerning. Especially since CJ dislocated his elbow and got back before him.
Sam Smith (warning: take with grain of salt) had an interesting comment
in his rankings column. He usually isn’t so quick to jump to conclusions re trades with new players (link):
They still don’t know what they have in Hamilton, but missing virtually the first quarter of the season has to be a concern. You assume if Hamilton has additional issues the Bulls will have to be active at the trading deadline.
I wonder if the combination of the Noah/Boozer problems (or, maybe just Noah?) and Hamilton’s absence will force the Bulls to make a move prior to the deadline.
Probably not great news about Rose's injury, but I guess it could be worse.
@KCJHoop K.C Johnson
DRose said “6 or 7” when asked to rate his pain on scale of 1-10. Said decision on TUES is his but team is leaning towards holding him out.
And it’s definitely a good idea to keep him out of Tuesday’s game.
ahh fuck it. sit him tomorrow. start Watson, and also start Butler. if we’re conceding a game, may as well see what Butler can do with a good amount of playing time.
@KCJHoop K.C Johnson
Thibs said combination of factors—pressing lineup working, big deficit, game TUES—is why Noah and Boozer sat for all of 4th again. #Bulls
Obviously, given the latter two factors, Deng had to play almost 40 minutes again…
if he was so concerned about tomorrow and the big deficit was too much to overcome, why the hell were Lu and Brew out there for 37 and 39 minutes, respectively? He’s clearly lying. I’d be shocked if the Bulls front office isn’t hard at work trying to pull something off. We can see Booz and Jo stinking up the joint, surely they can.
The other lineup was working because Booz and Jo weren’t in it, most likely, so that’s an indictment on Booz/Noah, no? Same goes for the big deficit. Booz and Noah have loads to do with being down big. When your two bigs post 15 points and 12 boards while giving up 35 and 22, they’re kind of the reason the deficit is, ya know, big.
The bottom line is that if Boozer and Noah weren’t playing like shit and getting outplayed by their backups, which seems to happen every damn game, they would be out there late in games. Thibs actions speak for themselves; he doesn’t trust his ~30 million dollar men, plain and simple.
To be fair, and I think this was pointed out by runningman in the game thread
The Bulls made their run on offense and defensive stops with Taj/Asik in, but Conley was also out at the time. When Conley came back in, Memphis pulled away again. (note: I will not confirm or deny that I may be reaching a bit here…)
Alright, this is the kind of game where people should be jumping on the
Boozer is trash bandwagon. I was at work and didn’t watch 1 second of the game, but seeing 13 and 7 off of 12 FGA and 2 trips to the line against fucking Speights tells me all I need to know. I’m thinking he probably took (at least) 7 or 8 J’s, had no dunks and missed a couple bunnies. Oh, and Speights took him for 16 and 12. Not only can he not score against a bum, but Booz can’t even D up a bum. He’s trash.
Y’all are telling me that they signed Booz for 15 million annually and, in a game without Rose where we need him to pick up the scoring, he gives you thirteen points?!?!? And the icing on the cake is that in the same amount of minutes, Taj goes 6-8 from the field and 4-4 from the line, giving you 16 points, 5 boards, 2 steals and 3 blocks.
Oh, and Noah brought some major suckage too. No scoring, rebounding or defense. Looks like he got eaten alive by Gasol Jr. If the starting bigs can’t give you a quality effort against a Speights/Marc Gasol frontcourt, what are they good for? Nobody cares about how Booz had a good night against Detroit, Washington or anybody else. When he was needed, with Rose out, he failed, like he does when the pressure’s on.
Booz gets a nice game, Booz haters or likers will talk shit. talk shit about Taj when he has a bad game and blah. Taj does the same vice versa. Talk about how he should be a starter and amnesty booz and blah… Im getting sick of this shit and im beginning not to give a shit about this anymore…I don’t care how we win with who as long as we win….But this is gonna keep happening every game…So…Ugh..
Just don’t understand why every mistake Boozer makes is so magnified. He’s fine. If Taj started people would be complaining about him being a black hole, and not a good enough rebounder.
I really don't want to have a "Boozer defender" schtick
but I sincerely don’t get how you can call him trash. No, he’s probably not the perennial All Star, low post presence, we were hoping we were getting, but he’s far from terrible. If you want to see worthless, watch Noah play this season. On a team without many scoring options, Boozer has value. Add to that his improved defense, and his rebounding, and he is a very serviceable player.
Taj has played well, but as yfbb pointed out in the game thread, he’s in a role that is well suited for him. He’s far from perfect himself. The bottom line with our frontcourt is that we truly do need everyone (except Noah if he keeps playing this horribly)
Boozer is playing far better than Noah. He is stroking the ball well from the outside, and is a bit more active defensively than last year. Noah, on the other hand, shows few signs of being able to regain anything like his best previous form.
People DO jump on Boozer for these kinds of games, actually too much, and then ignoring when he plays well.
You can argue that over all he isn’t quite as good as we need/want him to be, but he can’t say he sucks just by cherry-picking the few suckfests he has. Overall he’s like the Bulls 2nd leading scorer (per36) and 2nd behind Rose in PER (excluding Butler’s small sample size). He’s who we thought he was and really, for the most part, doing what he is being asked to do.
Whenever one does well, 1 faction praise one and not the other, and vice versa. This is why I stopped caring about it. No objectivity all biased opinions. I.e the Boozer is ruining Noah schick I can see that Jo will have to worry about booz’s man too. But still there is clearly something else wrong with him. What is wrong with him? The hell I know.
But damn I see absolutely NO fire from Noah whatsoever. The closest we got was Boston. What, he’s gotta play KG every night to get that hyped for games? Both of em are playing just terrible and if ones “ruining” the other or whatever, put 1 with the bench mob and keep the other 1 on a short leash. I would like to see Noah and Asik play together from time to time.
Noah with Asik...No offense but still it should help
He’s just different not the same dude. But Booz ruining him is a stretch, it’s not his fault that Jo losing some fire for some reason…But part of me feels like he’s waiting til the playoffs. Hopes tha’s the case
I don’t understand anyone out there that can find anything positive about what Carlos Boozer brings to the table. Juice says he adds something, you say we’re cherrypicking. Come on guys.
Forget his contract or expectations for a moment. Understand the position Boozer plays. He’s a PF which stands for Power Forward. Unless he’s a rare breed like Dirk, his job is to get rebounds, defend his position, be a deterrent in the paint and an offensive presence in the paint. Can any Boozer supporter say he’s doing any of these things? Of course not.
Boozer using a fade away jumper as his first option to score is a killer on the offensive end if it doesn’t fall. Hell this dude is not even in a position to get double teamed! And I don’t care what anyone says, on the defensive end he’s making Noah have to do so much work that he’s literally ruining that guy. Some will say “Where’s the proof of that?” and I will say, tell me when Joakim Noah was consistently at his best? And I guarantee it wasn’t when Boozer was on the floor.
There’s no cherry picking and guys like Dakoose and myself have been consistent in criticizing him even when he plays well. Because if having a hot night shooting for him is the best he can ever be, then it’s not enough and he needs to go or in the meantime go to the bench.
There, I found something positive he does. And it didn’t take very long.
Now, I’m going to hold my breath and wait for someone to rebut with some magnificently stupid bullshit about how he doesn’t rebound that well in traffic.
He defensive rebounds well. There that was even quicker
And half the time those are rebounds that he’s grabbing from Deng or Noah and today’s game was a great example of that. He fights harder for those than offensive rebounds against opposing teams. What else you got that he does well that warrants him starting or being an impactful player for this team? I’ll wait…
He’s a jump shooter at this point in his career. 13 ppg on 12 shots and 1 trip to the line for a big ain’t shit. That’s 1 point per possession. It’s OK, but when a guy is here PURELY for offense, and like Dils said, needs to be hot in order to get those numbers, it’s not nearly good enough.
But I agree that if we’ve already seen Boozer’s best with the few games he was hitting all the outside shots, then I’m not impressed. I want his to best to 30/15 and the 18/8 games to be consistent.
I’m not a Boozer hater, I think he’s too valuable to just straight up amnesty (unless we KNOW we’re signing Love or something), but he does have to get better and be more aggressive.
After this game, I think I switched to the “start Gibson” crowd. Still give Booz minutes so he can produce and prove himself again. But start Gibson.
And with that we saw a better defensive team and a better Noah. You guys are acting like he’s a factor on this team. Like without Boozer, this team can’t function and win games. And to say that this team had the best record in the league with his starting is like saying this team had the best record with Bogans starting. I mean, so what? There’s more to it than that.
No I'm not trying to say that it's imperative that Carlos Boozer is on this team, I didnt' mean to imply that. Taj would do just fine in the starting line up.
But it seems to me like the outrage is misguided quite a bit. Noah’s the problem here.
I’m all over Jo, too. To be in the league as long as he has and not have any scoring skills is kind of crazy. No moves, no post-game, no shot, it’s messed up.
We wouldn’t suck without him, but he’s a very helpful player. He’s good. That’s it, that’s what I’m trying to say. When you guys are acting like he’s totally worthless, I find it a bit odd
Yeah, that's all I can figure. Dils has lost the ability to be objective on this one, it seems.
Pending Iranian Nuclear Crisis: Boozer.
The national deficit: Boozer’s Fault.
The time I failed twelfth grade: Fuck you, Boozer.
The fall of Man: Boozer, you fat fuck.
Mosquitoes: Were Boozer’s idea.
…
….
……
I half that sarcastic BS you and Juice were typing were valid, Boozer’s sorry ass wouldn’t be glued to the bench most games. I don’t have the burden of proof here, you guys do. Talking about efficiency, defensive rebounds has nothing to do with why this guy isn’t effective. Thibs already knows it.
Thibs’s actions are backing up our sentiments here, not theirs. If Boozer really did bring all that stuff to the table, why is his ass on the bench in crunch time? We know why, they don’t seem to.
My point, is that whatever ineffectiveness Boozer posits, Joakim is doubling right now.
That’s the rub. Now, admittedly, you criticize Boozer when he plays well. When he rebounds, it’s because it’s taking it from other people that—what(?)—have dibs on the rebounds. When he shoots well, he, you know, shouldn’t be shooting outside of ten feet.
I’m not prepared to call him a second option on a championship caliber team, either, but I’m saying that I don’t think Boozer is the biggest problem in the starting line up right now.
I’m not saying Boozer is amazing either. But he’s just not one of the major problems on this team at the moment. Noah’s suckage is ten times more of a concern at this point
Not really, because we have a stud defender who can step right in at the moment.
Booz is supposed to be able to score 20 ppg, the Bulls didn’t bring in a 13 ppg scorer for all that money. The Bulls don’t have a guy on the bench who can bring that production. Fortunately, they have a guy on the bench who overall, is a better player, but Taj doesn’t bring the scoring punch either.
Jo Noah playing like absolute dogshit right now is somehow mitigated by Asik’s presence on the bench. Whereas, Boozer not going 20 and 10 is somehow more detrimental to the team even considering Gibson’s spot next to Asik on the bench?
Now, I get the fury that failed expectations can bring about, but this is the type of nonsensical badgering of Boozer that’s annoying.
The two issues are not equal. Noah is more fungible than Booz. Asik can bring what Noah brings, and more. I wouldn’t have an issue if they swapped Noah and Asik right now. However, the Boozer issue is more troubling because even though I think Taj could be more productive with Booz’s minutes, he doesn’t do the things that Boozer was supposed to do any more than Booz does. The type of stuff that Boozer is “supposed to be” doing can only be done by him, and when he’s not doing those things, it hurts more than when Jo doesn’t do his things, because Jo’s things can be done by Omer.
So...in all of that, I think I deciphered that Boozer has failed to meet expectations...
which I agree with. Totally. Though, Jo has failed in more spectacular fashion—not only can Jo not do typical Jo things. He can’t even hold the fucking basketball. Whereas, granted, Boozer does a few things well, Noah is doing no things, not one thing, well.
is the more spectacular failure, but in the big picture it’s not as big of a deal because Noah’s production is replaceable by giving Omer more minutes. Furthermore, that may even be an upgrade.
With Booz, what he is supposed to be is a crutch to lean on in the half court. Whether or not Taj is better doesn’t change the fact that Booz was brought here to do something special. Not just that, but he was brought here to do something that nobody else on the team can do. Therein lies the rub. His failure may not be spectacular, but who gives a shit about that? What matters is which failure hurts more, and the answer is Booz’s.
Everything your first paragraph said is the truth. It’s not fair because it’s not suppose to be. What you think he’s making 80mil because he’s a great guy? No. He is brought in to do what Dakoose said and that has nothing to do with Noah.
My deal is that right now Boozer is a Pick and pop PF. That’s it. All he does is sit 18 fee\et out and shoot jumpers. Now to me that’s not enough. So anytime he goes out there and goes 11/13 from the field, people say “Hey look at that efficient Boozer. Where are all the Boozer haters!”
My point is that all you got was a hot shooting night from your PF. That’s not going to work. Especially because he can’t do that every night. That’s great for Kyle Korver but not for a guy who was suppose to take heat off Rose by being a presence in the paint. That shot will always be there because teams would rather he take that shot. He doesn’t even attempt to go on the block.
Then you add in his defensive liabilities and what you get that is all or nothing. Either he’s unbelievable from the field shooting or he shouldn’t be on the court because any other positive he has I can get from like 2-3 other players. He’s basically a PF version of Kyle Korver
If he were really a great rebounder, he would have at least one season in which he was top ten in ORB%. Well…….he doesn’t. He grabs a bunch of easy defensive boards per game and sprinkles in a tough one here or there. Just hanging around the rim guarantees a big 6-7 a night, unless you’re Eddy Curry.
but I see him grab so many rebounds off missed free throws it’s not even funny. Like I said, he does grab a tough one here and there, but I see a lot more easy ones in there. And I’ll say it again, good rebounders are good rebounders and if he was that good he wouldn’t only be productive on one end of the floor.
Even though we had the best record in the league last year with him starting. Have the best record in the league right now with him starting. He basically won 50 games every year while he was in Utah. He’s been second in PER to Derrick since he arrived. He’s our best rebounder. A very good passer for a big man. He’s our best scorer besides Rose. AND he’s a great teammate. But let’s just keep talking about the AMAZING year Ronnie Brewer is having because he doesn’t cost nearly as much money.
Guess what? There’s not a lot of guys in the league that do all these things at the level that you want Boozer to do them at:
his job is to get rebounds, defend his position, be a deterrent in the paint and an offensive presence in the paint.
And they’re extremely hard to find. Unfortunately, it looks like Boozer will have to leave the team for fans to realize that, hey, he really wasn’t that bad.
I can’t think of too many PFs not on rookie contracts that are better AND cheaper than Boozer. I think David Lee might make ~1mil less than Booz, but put him on our slower paced team and his numbers would probably be worse than Boozer’s.
I don’t give a shit about PER or record. The first is not that important to me and the second is a team stat. We won a billion games with Keith starting and won plenty of games with Kurt instead of Jo, should we have given them starting jobs?
I’d rather be starting Brandon Bass than Booz, and all he cost was one overweight, fat piece of crap. David West was gotten on the cheap. Beyond that, I get it, we have Booz and that’s that. But Taj should be getting 30 minutes, not Booz.
Yeah, good luck with that. I’d love to see what you’d say if Bass was actually starting on this team, because clearly you haven’t watched him play very much. He’s not as good a scorer, or rebounder as Booz, and he’s nothing defensively
As for not giving a shit about PER, I’m not sure why that would be the case unless you’re intentionally trying to avoid knowing things in the event that they don’t jive with what you’re seeing on tv. PER is a great stat.
12 and 6.5 per game. In 29 mpg, Booz gives the Bulls 13.5 and 8.3 per game, and that’s without having a threat like DRose out there with him. With a guy like Bass, Rose and Deng would get more shots off, which I prefer over Booz getting touches anyways, and Bass would be down there cleaning the trash and knocking down J’s, which I’ve seen him do really well in the 5 or 6 Celtics games I’ve seen from him this season.
More importantly, he’s stronger than Booz, more athletic and brings in a more complete offensive/defensive package to the table.
But your Brandon Bass argument doesn’t make any sense. They’re essentially the same exact player at this point. They’re scoring at almost exactly the same rate, at the same percentage, in pretty much the same ways. Boozer rebounds more, which is important, and gets more assists, which is important, and more steals, which is important, but these things aren’t important because you believe that he is stronger and more athletic, despite having no evidence of such. Now there is analysis!
No point in arguing with someone who hasn't watched Bass play.
I’ve seen him come out of a crowd and power dunk 2 handed from a stand still this season. I’ve seen him play plenty; he plays stronger, moves better and jumps higher. Is that so damn hard to understand?
It's a stat skewed in favor of big men and overrates a lot of players in the league.
It also highly disregards defense. I’ll look at it at times, but it’s far down the list of things I use when I evaluate players, way, way behind the eye test.
Well, you confirmed that you didn't watch the game.
Speights did most of his damage early with Noah on him, while Boozer was left on Gasol who was pretty quiet until the end (and did his damage against Taj/Omer). Boozer had one bad defensive possession against Gasol, and Noah had a pretty bad turn against Speights, but otherwise they did most of their damage on mid-range jumpers, where Speights started 3-3 or something.
Taj came in and played well, but to use a cherry-picked game that you didn’t even watch to prove your whole “Booz is trash argument,” is completely ignorant.
You trying to tell me that in a game without Rose, the supposed go-to big man gives you 13 and 8 and that’s a good game? Not ignorant at all. Both bigs feasted and Booz was out there for 27 minutes, you’re trying to tell me he played good D??
Boozer was horrid on defense and the Bulls weren’t competitive in that game until Boozer’s ass was benched and I saw the damn game. It’s not rocket science to know what he didn’t do on the court. Taj look every bit like the better player and even had a back to the basket score that Boozer hasn’t had all season.
Yeah, and they just showed some numbers from that game on TNT,
and the Grizzlies got almost 70 points in the paint, which is Boozer land. And this jpm fella might have a point if my issues with Booz stemmed from today’s game; I’ve been on this train since last season. My initial post in this thread was an appeal to all the Booz lovers to see the light and realize how much of a dog this guy is.
In fact, if he needs it, rest him until the Miami game, or longer if he needs it. We’ve built up a nice cushion, and a healthy Rose is far more important than playoff seeding.
That being said, the concern is that he’s said this is a problem he’s had on and off for a while. So you have to wonder if it’s even possible for him to get the rest and treatment he needs during the season. I wish someone besides Thibs gladiator ass would come out and tell the people what exactly the issue is here. I mean, I don’t even know what the gd injury is at this point. it’s still unclear if it’s turf toe, or what. He’s the franchise player, people want to know these things
I believe Noah shouldn't even post up against anyone and Butler should spell Deng....
Noah should focus solely on defense, rebounding, and the occasional pass. If he gets a chance to tip in a rebound or dunk it quickly, then go for it. Otherwise, he should only focus on those three things. It’s clear that he is not even an average offensive player and never will be. He’s a center who is shooting 39 percent from the field…..without even taking a lot of shots. If he isn’t rebounding or defending well (as has been the case for almost the entire season), put Asik in. Asik is looking more competent on offense than Noah and also looks better on defense this year. It isn’t that I don’t want Noah to do well, but something is clearly lacking.
Deng is near the top of the league in minutes played. Every time Butler comes in, he looks like a polished veteran player. He plays smoothly and confidently with no hesitance to drive towards the basket. He takes smart, efficient shots or he passes it out to one of his teammates. He can also play spot minutes at the 2 when Korver isn’t hitting his shots. I see no reason why Butler shouldn’t be playing at least 8-12 minutes per game. He isn’t yet a three point threat at this early stage of his career, but he clearly knows his limitations. He seems to do basically everything at an above average level, and he’s got some size. By the end of the season, I hope we see Butler cracking the rotation. I’m not saying he is the answer and I’m sure he’ll make his fair share of mistakes, but the kid seems talented and consistent.
He should be relegated to junkyard dog status. Tip ins, dunks short jump hooks when he’s open….that’s it. All defense, all hustle and the occasional bucket.
With regards to Butler, it’s no big deal. Maybe he should get some playing time, maybe he shouldn’t, but a few minutes here and there won’t change all that much.
And both times before the game, I see Noah working on his jumpshot (jumpshit). He should be working on his feet, dunks, layups, tip ins. That jumpshot will never be a consistent weapon.
I agree. Why shouldn’t Butler earn some of Kyle’s minutes if he isn’t shooting well? All Butler does is play sound defense, take good shots, not commit fouls, and take care of the ball without turning it over.
I’d love to see Noah play like Rodman did, because both are defensive-minded, high energy players on teams that need them. Like you said, he should expend less energ on offense, and more on getting in the opponents face.
As for Butler, I would love to see his minutes increase. Deng’s minutes are out of control, and I get nervous every game when I see him play 40+. Once Rose returns, I see no reason why Deng can’t rest more often.
You know something is right when everyone is shouting "NOAH SUCKS"
CALM DOWN Y’ALL!!! Memphis is a pretty good team. Our guys were tired, sloppy and not shooting that great. Rose was absent. 25 pts per out of your line-up isn’t easy to make up, especially given our offense has been so up and down and Boozer isn’t who we thought he was (sorry Dennis Green)!!!
i thought he was playing super to start today. did a little team defense too. speights (vs noah) and conley (vs lucas) were killin’. rudy gay was making kobe-like shots, unguardable. gasol hit several 24sec buzzer beaters in the 2nd half, foiling excellent team defense.
noah had some moves, some energy too. but it was near comical but (only for non-chi fans) how he simply could not get the ball to drop in.
i knew boozer wasn’t that good, but i thought we’d be getting (affordably, lol!) joe johnson too. there’s your second scorer, big 2 defender, other go to guy.
how long until the noah/boozer combo can be called a failure?
it would probably be fine if booz was out…. he wouldn’t be missed… but then kurt thomas would! (which is a way of saying the bulls, sadly, need boozer.)
I forget where I read or saw it, but someone was talking about the importance of spacing on a basketball team. And how you are really gimping your offense by not having 2-3 shooters on the floor at all times, no matter how good the player(s) playing are. I recognize that Ronnie does multiple things well, and I really like the guy, but I constantly question whether it’s even worth having him on the floor at times considering the way he gets his points. Even if he’s shooting well, it’s more of a result of him being wide open because the opposing team doesn’t bother. And I fear when Rip returns, Thibs will revert to less playing time for Korver, which would not be wise imo (although he could just play Lu less, but we all know that ain’t happenin’)
Well, that was the trade the front office people gambled on.
Can’t blame anyone else for it…well, you can, you can blame Boozer for not being as good as he should. I do agree about Joe Johnson or another similar player that can play solid, allround ball and be a good 2nd option. Noah has to improve other aspects of his game. He doesn’t need to become an offensive threat, but it would be nice if he can do some damage in the paint and score more points. Everyone needs to chip in when Rose is out, that’s obvious, I hope. Deng has been good. I think he has been really, really good for us since the beginning of last season. Taj and CJ had good games today, perhaps Thibodeau can sort of tinker the starting line-ups, and see what the best combinations could be. We have guys that can score, given the right match-ups, it’s consistency that we are after though.
might be thibs not trusting his bench wings as much as he trusts his bench big men. To me that is the biggest cause of concern, or maybe rather, the thing i want the most explanation of. I think the amazing comeback that occured happened when the lineup was, cj, korver, brewer, taj, asik. We got the lead cut down, deng came back in (with rudy gay ) and the bulls got out ran. I think deng should have remained on the bench at least for a little while more. Brewer and even korver had fresher legs, i know korver sort of botched some box outs and had trouble moving on screens, but defensively asik and taj were holding it down. Certainly you could have rode korver a bit more. Cj, korver, and brewer could have potentially lit it up from 3pt land, and let asik and taj clean up.
Deng really DESRVES rest, and i think boozer and noah need to stay on the court and work off whatever they are doing wrong.
I wanna say there is more going on than the org wants to tell us, and its possible the two are sitting so much to prevent injury so that a trade can occur at the deadline. Of course, i cant prove my theory until another month has passed..if no trade happens, i expect to see boozer and noah playing far more minutes
I wanna say there is more going on than the org wants to tell us, and its possible the two are sitting so much to prevent injury so that a trade can occur at the deadline
Wouldn’t their poor performances (especially Noah, imo) detract from any potential trade deal? In other words, I imagine the Bulls FO would prefer seeing Noah/Boozer consistently perform well in order to enhance their trade value, if they’re considering moving one or both at all (which I highly doubt, anyway).
i think theres possibly already some slight injury
consider this, when they play well, thibs certainly rides them. Part of why boozers per is so damn high is because thibs really has only played him when he has been playing well. I think in terms of trading as well, creating this air of “well this player didnt get that much time for whatever reason due to thibs” is a nice excuse for the organization to fall back on, and then they can point to the few times they played (well) and past achievements. Its not perfect by all means, but im just thinking its possible. I hold thibs in high regard in terms of basketball knowledge, so im just trying to grasp at reasons why someone i think is so smart is constantly creating this bad image for two of the more paid players and yet playing a third player so hard….its sort of weird…speculations are due i suppose
i think offensively korver will always be a threat to shoot
even if hes 0-12, i think when hes on the floor teams always have to consider the fear of him making the next one, especially when the score is so close to single digits deficits. The bulls staple is their defense, and teams know that, the worse thing you want is to have the bulls get two stops and consecutively knock down 2 3s. A 10 point lead suddenly becomes 4, and young teams like memphis can possibly start to fold, especially when you have guys like conley and gay who might suddenly decide to vary from the gameplan for a hero move….I think moreso the point also is, we have pretty great depth at the wing position, and like everyone keeps saying, deng certainly could have, and SHOULD HAVE gotten some more rest. He was part of the reason i think the close game became a blow out again.
i agree the bulls need korver out there, and that deng needs to play less.
but the only play that deng had as part of “the close game becoming a blowout again” was his (“my bad”) turnover on the sideline outlet. that play was surrounded by several great late plays by deng (and taj… and omer). deng was great throughout. (i thought he looked more fatigued in the 1st half!)
this was not a close game. memphis got rattled, but then cranked up their (very capable) defense on a rose-less bulls.
the more i think we are destined to be this decade’s cavs.
deep team built around 1 star that can dominate the regular season because of superstar + elite defense combo
but come playoff time its just too much to ask of one guy to shoulder the entire load
1. We’re like lebron’s cavs
2. We’re better than lebron’s cavs, argument being that having a 22 yr old MVP is awesome sauce
3. counter point that lebron was MVP twice in a row then.
4. counter-counter point arguing that the heat now are comparable to lebron’s cavs in terms of accomplishments.
5. Point that bosh/wade>cavs non-lebron players
Is that relevant to the idea that we’re turning into the Lebron Cavs? I realize that you’re replying to a heat related comment, but we’ve drifted a bit from the original assertion.
Certainly. And it's valid criticism based on a relatively small sample size.
But valid criticism given the size of the shit floating around in the punchbowl today. But, all I’m saying is, if you can believe the rhetoric coming from the org about Howard, not everything is cemented as is—and as such—I don’t think we’re destined to be Cleveland, given the time we have with Rose here.
Rose isn’t at the level of Cavs LeBron. Remember when he eviscerated the Pistons defense by himself to carry a crappy team to the finals? Me neither BECUZ HIS SELL FONE HASNO REENGZZZZZ LOL
without lebron, the cavs are shitty udner 500 team, the bulls are around close to .500
i dont care bout the overpaid part, the point is the bulls team has the better role players and the contracts are irrelevant when it comes to comparing talent.
so its SUPER SUPER SUPER star + crap crap role players
vs SUPER star + role players
basically evens out. we are looking like the cavs. a one man show that aint going anywhere unless our management grows balls and goes out and gets another star.
we are overrating rose if you start telling me rose is a better player than lebron
come on before the heat thing everyone wouldve easily admitted lebron was by far the best player in the league. back to back MVP. took a team of shit players to the finals. 30-8-8 threat every night.
He has that persona, but we all watched the playoffs last season. He had a tough time in the playoffs, especially against Miami. When the game got into the half court, he struggled to score, and at the end of those games, Lebron had his numbers. I hope he’s got some more tricks this type around.
he needs to also trust him team more and i hope with rip as the sg rose job would be a bit easier. He took some stupid shots last yr against the heat and i hope he learned from that.
I personally think that if Rose was the same size as LBJ, he'd wipe the floor with him.
He is at a disadvantage being 6’3’’. Even with a 40’’ vert, he can get banged around much easier than LeBron and is more susceptable for having his shot blocked. LeBron is pretty much the perfect basketball player in terms of athleticism and size, but I don’t think he is nearly as skilled as Kobe, KD, Wade or Rose. Mentally, he has issues as well.
What I just wrote may come off outlandish, but I hope you understand what I’m getting at.
wade is a ball stopper. bosh is a ball stopper. joel anthony cant do shit. all their shooters are shooting like crap or cant defend anything to stay out there long enough.
and also about the front office. i see similarities
they were too afraid in cleveland to do shit and make actual basketball trades because they were afraid to piss off lebron and trade one of his friends
here in chicago our front office is too scared to make any damn moves because of chemistry and being too afraid to piss anyone off
I don't know. I feel like if a Howard deal were a real possibility, GarPax would make it happen.
But it isn’t clear if Howard would come here (albeit admittedly I don’t really know how much power he has to influence any trade [I don’t think anyone other than Howard or his agent really do]).
just surprised to see what one game can do to a crowd, thats it
nothing wrong with complaining, but if this were to happen for consecutive games, then i can udnerstand. There is no mystery that this team is a .500 team without rose. Majroity of the plays run thru rose, lol.
i already know the problems with this team regarding both noah and boozer. We know boozer cant do shit without rose feeding him the ball as well noah has been crap except the past two games. Its like beating a dead horse.
but i do and i dont liek the fact hes assuming that bout me
i take alot of pride into observing a players day-day performance, but at this point i dont see nothing new bout todays loss except watson is a solid pg.
i think its true that some of the overly complaining comments are annoying
but i dont think its bad in general to criticize the very real shortcomings of the team. We certainly are contenders, but the goal is to not just contend, but to win. Theres plenty to be thankful for on this team, but theres much to be fearful of. Everything seems , pardon the pun, rosey, while rose is playing and healthy, but very realistically, a rose injury (like the current one) is really all that seperates us from say the boston celtics. And unfortunately, its not even just not having rose, but in the playoffs we will find that our over reliance on rose may lead to our downfall as well.
I dislike the guys who just like to bring up every game regardless of boxscores and wins/losses how worthless boozer is (if nothing else, relative to his contract) how ‘high’ noah is playing, how non-superstar-ish deng is…….but while they are annoying, there certainly are valid concerns there. And i think the idea of this fanbase is to contemplate, needlessly perhaps, possible solutions to our flaws and weaknesses, consider realistic approaches to solutions, and hope we can maybe get a train of thought moving so fast that would force the bulls organization to change the product to appease its market.
So while being overzelaous in the bashing is quite annoying, i think i appreciate that unlike some fanbases, this one also refuses to become overzealous with the praise for this team and constantly sets the tone of the bulls as not just a team but a fanbase that wants nothing short of victory, and will work tediously to make winning possible in various situations.
I think ultimately right now, everyone is looking at these regular season games as gauges, and its not really about the immediate games, but questions and fears of what they can mean going into the future, say a game 3 of the ecf
its fine to critique players, but at this point people shouldnt be surprised that this team is pitiful without rose
boozer is past his prime. I think last year injuries are def hurting his produciton b.c he just doesnt have that strength to post up his players anymore. Why do i say this? Look at what happened after the Brown flagrant foul. That turf toe injury have really hurted his mobility permanently. I seemed to recall (I beleive it was macjack or Dr. Handsome) who stated big toe turf injuries never heal 100 percent and behold, I think thats why hes now relying on jumpers. You can say he sucks all the time, but at this point i have accepted this new boozer. Who’s fault is it for giving him a long contract? the front office obviously. I dont liek the length of the contract and never did realizing how old hell be by that time.
Noah on the other hand is a mystery. Idk wtf is wrong with him and nobody will ever know. We have speculated his shitty performance is due to a possible injury, dogging it and saving energy for the playoffs, or he boozy is effecting his performance. At this point, all you can do is hope he mans up and plays like the way he used to last yr. Speculating on his future is useless b.c at this pt with his shitty performance and contract hes not tradeable. All we can do is hope he improves or thibs benches him and plays asik over him.
its fine to critique players, but at this point people shouldnt be surprised that this team is pitiful without rose
I think it certainly is a surprise we are pitiful without rose. Sure rose should be the guy that sends us over the edge, but to be pitiful without rose is to be, as somone mentioned above, the cavs when they had lebron. One of the biggest strengths of the bulls is supposed to be its insane depth and how good the rotation players are sans rose. Thats why guys like dwight should be lining up to come here right? So if we play a memphis team without THEIR most consistent scorer in z-bo, and look pitiful. Certainly that is a cause of concern. The problem i think people are having isnt that we lost, but that, like u said, we looked pitiful, not a single player, but as a team…
boozer is past his prime. I think last year injuries are def hurting his produciton b.c he just doesnt have that strength to post up his players anymore.
Right, and yet the organization just signed him last year. You cant always see things coming, and the truth is the organization HAD to sign someone because that cap space we had wasnt going to last any longer than that year. For that reason i think its ridiculous to constantly bring up boozers contract relative to pay. The bulls tried to give that contract to multiple other players, and the only one we really missed was lee. The contract boozer had, the money that was spent, was gonna be spent regardless, there were plenty of people before the signing that were already predicting a pretty crappy boozer. To me its simple, boozer just has to produce. It will never be defensively, so it will have to be offensively. Maybe he cant be that post player anymore, but to be honest, i dont think its that important for him to be that post player, as it is important for him to be a guy who can score close to 20 a game, whether it be jumpshots or inside buckets. If hes not producing, hes a liability, and if hes going to be on the bench so much, maybe its better to just amnesty him. Thats my issue with the ones who like to just trash on him even when he produces, they knock him even when he produces just cuz of how he produced. Thats ridiculous. I think his jumpshots actually help roses game more than his post play so its more important for him to have that constant offense. Lately its been inconsistent, and thats reason for concern.
At this point, all you can do is hope he mans up and plays like the way he used to last yr. Speculating on his future is useless b.c at this pt with his shitty performance and contract hes not tradeable. All we can do is hope he improves or thibs benches him and plays asik over him.
No, noah not playing well is something to be fearful of. A lot of our success, and honestly a lot of roses success hinges on noah. His ability to play the offensive glass, to make plays with the ball through passing, and the fact that he is supposed to be our defensive anchor is important. Yes, asik is a defensive juggernaut in himself, but there are things asik will never really be able to do, and its those things (passing, running the floor WITH ball, being able to provide energy with his demeanor) that compliment rose very well. With a brand new contract, and the only thing that really sets him apart from guys like verajao missing in his game, Noah’s deficiencies cant be ignored. We have capable bigs on our bench sure, but noah’s worth to this team can be duplicated/upgraded/replaced by only a handful of individuals in the league, and they arent on our bench. If noah isnt at full power, then this team is going to suffer greatly in the post season without a huge talent upgrade. Its pretty dire actually. We need to know how to solve the noah sucking situation, and the answers arent easy, the simplist answer right now might be to actually cut ties…but because of the huge fan following thats difficult. To simply ignore it as a fanbase might end up biting us in the butt. If the fans become ready to part with noah, its possible the organization will as well…that is if it ever has to come with that…
with that said, the bulls are still number 1 in the east. We can worry all we want obut booz and noah, but its useless Booz is gonna be like this for the whole yr and Noah can only go up from here and out.
Optimistic reasoning, but there is no guarantee about noah getting better. And the bulls were number 1 last year, in the post season all that means nothing. Also i think it is what fans do, cheer when we win, worry when we lose. To suggest fans stop the worrying is to deny fans the great satisfaction that comes from winning knowing how difficult the journey actually is.
fair enough, i wait till midseason and esp this season being so condensed (lack of training camp). I believe its better to see how this team is with Rip and Rose back and see if Noah and Boozer have progressed
like many have said before, its a weird season, and alot of players have not been playing to their standards. Majority of diehard fans try to analyze game by game, but I like to wait for a stretch of games before I start worrying about a player. Lets just say if Noah is sucking even by all star break, then I would worry about him.
As for being 1st place in the season not mattering coming playoff time is true. However, since Jan have been cruel to the bulls in terms of travel time, lack of practice etc. vs teams like the clips with a lighter jan schedule. Feb is suppose to be lighter schedule and by that time expect multiple teams to be back more insync by that around. If close to or by all star break Noah is still sucking, then its a big problem.
I think that’s the whole point. If you have a PF that’s nothing but a jumpshooter, then all you have is a guy who you’re dependent on to get his points being hot from the field. I mean he’s not going to the line a lot right? So how in the world do you expect him to get 20 ppg shooting pick and popping all night?
See that is a problem and I don’t see how much that helps Rose when your PF isn’t even in a position to demand a double team. No the way he scores is the problem because the only way he’s scoring is by basically shooting a bailout shot. That’s not a consistent way or person to run your offense through.
trust me Dils, you are not alone when it comes to wanting boozer to go hard to the rim and at least drawing the foul
however, he just hasnt been the same since last years injury and I think that toe injury is still “lingering.” Not that hes feeling pain or anything, but this injury that basically started the downfall of Shaq’s career is limiting his mobility. Lets put it in simple terms: hes past his prime. Hence, this is why i have come to accept whatever production he can give (if pick and pop is the only way he can produce, thats fine by me). You cant have him do things he is no longer capable of doing.
Noah on the other hand is a complete mystery at this point.
I agree with the emphasis you're putting on the enigmatic
nature of the Noah problem. Additionally, what’s frustrating about the outcry Boozer generates isn’t that it’s baseless. Let me say, I agree with the prohibition movement in this way: Boozer is a jump shooting PF, and as Dils, dakoose, and others have said (so fervently), we’re not winning in the ECF with a streaky jump shooter as the second offensive option on this team. For instance in games 3 and 4 of last year’s ECF Boozer went for 26 and 17, and 20 and 11; he then followed those two outings up with a 5 point 6 board shitfest. He’s not so much like the sun as much as he is a finicky fucking rain cloud that looks ominous enough only to subsequently do nothing. Moreover, Kyle Korver played the role of streaky jump shooter well enough in last years’ playoffs.
But, I can’t pretend that Boozer is the biggest problem this team has even though he’s failed to deliver on the promises of a post-up game. Boozer is a symptom of the problem. Problem is, we’re lost without Rose.
And so, the reaction to the Boozer-bashing is there because I think that the Boozer problem has been extended or exaggerated in such a way that it distracts from other, more root, problems. I only use the analogy of prohibition because of Boozer’s name and because I am on my seventh Pabst. It’s like, yeah, we can ax Boozer, or sit him, or amnesty him, just as you can ban the manufacture of alcohol. But, the point is, husbands still found a way to spend their entire life’s savings and they got fucking hammered at the expense of everyone else they were supposed to be supporting or valuing or whatever. So—in all—prohibition was misguided if not entirely fucking stupid. And utnill we see a healthy Richard Hamilton, a fixed Joakim Noah, and a rested Luol Deng, I’m not ready to prioritize Boozer as the biggest concern.
We need to know how to solve the noah sucking situation, and the answers arent easy, the simplist answer right now might be to actually cut ties…but because of the huge fan following thats difficult. To simply ignore it as a fanbase might end up biting us in the butt. If the fans become ready to part with noah, its possible the organization will as well…that is if it ever has to come with that…
Damn, I have not seen one Bulls game but has he really been that bad? He still has to be better than Joel and Pittman. I hope Wade can get healthy and the Heat can start actually playing defense again or y’all are going to kill us.
And i think the idea of this fanbase is to contemplate, needlessly perhaps, possible solutions to our flaws and weaknesses, consider realistic approaches to solutions, and hope we can maybe get a train of thought moving so fast that would force the bulls organization to change the product to appease its market.
That’s a bit rational for this place, don’t you think?
The uproar is not about the present, it is about the future. We want a title.
Anything less is a disappointment. We cannot beat OKC or the Heat with the play we put on the court today. Granted, we have played WAY too many games without a break or practice, several guys are sporting booboo’s…but we expect excellence. You know the players expect the same.
“Two sources said he is sitting because he is having bad reactions to pain medication for his sprained left big toe and couldn’t take them Monday.”
Well, at least he the injury hasnt gotten worse b.c of saturdays game. I would just keep him out till saturday. After that, we should have both rip and rose back.
lol, Barkley dropped Noah as his favorite player and said his new guy is... (drum roll)... RONDO
Talk about a punch to the gut. Not that I give a shit who Barkley’s favorite player is, but that we’re gonna have to listen to him kiss Rondo’s ass for the foreseeable future.
Also with Noah, I worry that he might start getting booed at the UC if this keeps up
and I wonder how he’ll react to that. he’s an emotional guy, and he’s even stood up for teammates that have been booed in the past. This thing could get ugly
He needs a boot to his ass. Everything wrong with him is mental. He knows he isn't preforming, but it's another thing to hear the crowd saying the same thing.
hilarious to see shaq still refuse to give dwight credit.
and is it really a debate that lebron james is not the best player in the league right now? like i get you can argue mvp and shit but from a talent standpoint lebron has to be the best player in the game obviously right?
fuck the "Boozer and Noah" and "Gibson and Asik" sets. whichever two guys are playing the best should be in the game at the end
and i don’t give a rat’s ass who starts. who Tommy Edwards announces means very little to me. the players who are playing most effective need to be on the floor at the end when the game is on the line.
that being said, for fucks sake don’t start JL3 ever again. i swear, i’ve never seen a guy be a starter and a white flag in the same game before. that was a first. JL3’s turnovers and ball hoggyness were some of the reasons we were behind to begin with
oh, and why do people keep bitching about Thibs' reasons for not playing Boozer and Noah in the 4th?
sure it’s very possible that he didn’t play them because they had bad games, and he just doesn’t want to say that in an interview.
but how is that bad? when has calling out a player to the media EVER been a good thing? let’s see Thibs say something to the media then demand from them what he does in practice. That’s why every group of players that Scott Skiles has ever coached ends up hating him to the point of ignoring what he says and sucking until he gets fired.
Can the bulls win a title with taj and asik on the floor at the end in the playoffs. I say yes. Defense wins championships. Is rip a big enough addition to the offense it can take pressure off rose and push us to a title. I say yes. The problem is we just havent seen the team as its meant to be too often this season. Before we panic and assume we know what the bulls need, lets at least see what they have. Maybe boozers shooting jumpers works wit rip in the game. Maybe the bulls dont need a clear cut second all star to compete. Maybe we just need a more effiecent offense flow to our game. Maybe thats exactly what rip brings. More balanced scoring. And less of a need for the team to depend on Rose for everything on offense. That to me seems like a definite upgrade from last year. We are way beyond boozer and even noah being central to our title aspirations.
All this boozer talk has brought me out of my lurker status to remind us all of how solid Booz was paired with a pick and pop center.
It’s clear to me he now feels more comfortable working a bit further from the basket with Noah in there, and hopefully their chemistry improves (they had some nice plays off each other in the celts game).
I don’t know what it is about that guy that has all of us picking apart his game, but I’m watching him almost every moment he’s in.
He is WAY better on rotations this year, but still frustratingly won’t get into a big man’s chest on a help rotation in the paint. I love the ‘big sexy swipe’ he seems to have picked up, and the increased steals.
Always slipping the screen is getting annoying, I’ve counted one solid screen for Rose all year, which resulted in a wide open bucket toward the end of the Toronto game. That said, there are times when he is open after his pick and rose doesn’t even look at him.
I think the most frustrating thing about him is the seemingly inconsistent effort/mental awareness. He checks out sometimes, to the point where I once almost thought he was point-shaving (I love this game).
I’d give him and Jo more time. The only one practice is certainly showing, as Sonty said, and hopefully they both pick it up, though that’s what we always say about the enigmatic Booz.
Boozer and Noah suck so so much
Poloplaya14 - January 16, 2012
that's BaB's version of 'First!'
your friendly BullsBlogger - January 16, 2012
ahhh you beat me to it
Man G - January 16, 2012
wait we still have those guys?!!
sin - January 16, 2012
Just 3 minutes
made me realized there’s no reason Jimmy can’t play 8 minutes to bring Luol’s minutes down to 33 (at least)…I’ve never seen him so tired like today
poker_punker - January 16, 2012
And he still had 20,6,3,3
KCinIL - January 16, 2012
I see the hard part about pulling Deng
Deng scores a lot of lowkey scrappy points. Boozer and Noah don’t at all. Half of Deng’s points come off cutting, slicing, and o-boards. You can tell Deng is the only player not named Rose that he completely trusts.
Mighty Healthy - January 16, 2012
Noah doesn't anymore that is. He doesn't get those tip ins like he used to.
rinconen - January 16, 2012
When your ONLY asset is hustle plays
and there’s 2 guys behind you doing that… and then some. You’re highly expendable.
Mighty Healthy - January 16, 2012
I agree
More reason to bring his minutes down…Thibs will realize the difference in March, not now…
poker_punker - January 16, 2012
I'm with ya
Mighty Healthy - January 16, 2012
I think Thib really need to make few adjustment
Bring down Luol minutes some how. Do something about boozer/Noah combo if we can’t get rid of them.
Man G - January 16, 2012
I don't think it's Boozer/Noah can't play with each other issue as much as a Noah can't play with anyone issue.
berzerkulous - January 16, 2012
Kind of hard to argue with this so far this season
bryield - January 16, 2012
On a positive note, we get to watch the Knicks lose now. LOL.
rinconen - January 16, 2012
Has Joakim been healthy recently?
He seems to have lost so much on his vertical. He used to be the guy that not only tipped every ball, but was able to ELEVATE around the basket to get easier layups/dunks. Even on defense, he’s only contesting shots he used to block.
He seems to have lost that jump recently and it’s made him worthless
WalmartSecurity - January 16, 2012
I think the fact that he's bulked up so much has had a substantial negative effect on his athleticism
He’s a completely different type of player now.
Poloplaya14 - January 16, 2012
Probably should've spent more time in the weight room and more time doing plyometric type stuff.
Poloplaya14 - January 16, 2012
Whoops, meant less time in the weight room
Poloplaya14 - January 16, 2012
Completely agree
He’s always been an underrated athlete, and that part of his game is all but gone. on putbacks, or catches near the basket he has to gather himself like Omer to try and dunk the ball, where he used to be able to quickly bounce up and throw it down. This is most certainly something physical, he can’t be the same player he used to be
Juiceboxjerry - January 16, 2012
That sucks
Bulls losing makes me sad
JustAnotherFan - January 16, 2012
we are so not used to it right?
Man G - January 16, 2012
im not that sad if the MVP aint playin.
RED_BULL - January 16, 2012
this is sad
We barely look like a .500 team without rose
sin - January 16, 2012
He's clearly the MVP
Mighty Healthy - January 16, 2012
but kobe and his 40 point games!!!!!
sin - January 16, 2012
BO$$...but gotta win too.
RED_BULL - January 16, 2012
None of those 40 were needed and some came in loses
I live in LA. After that 20-20 game by Andrew Bynum, his FGA have gone down by 6 per game. They’re offense right now is clearly just Kobe isolation.
Mighty Healthy - January 16, 2012
sarcasm detector fail
I live in la too. no ones happy about kobe jacking
sin - January 16, 2012
I'm another Bulls fan
in L.A.
want to start a podcast? “Bullsh*t in Laker Land.”
Micdiddy - January 16, 2012
Bulls Shit in Lakerland
sin - January 16, 2012
Bulls are making a very strong case for Rose MVP this season again...
lol
Man G - January 16, 2012
I saw on NBA on ESPN tweet
That had the rankings like this
1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. Durant
4. Rose
I can understand Kobe. But in what fucking way is Lebron in front of Rose and how is Durant too?
macjack09 - January 16, 2012
everyone likes stats
sin - January 16, 2012
Yeah they have was better stats at the moment.
we’re watching every Bulls game, obviously Drose looks like MVP to us. But if you just catch a few games and see the stats being put up, James and Durant are strong cases.
Micdiddy - January 16, 2012
If only we had a team loved by the NBA
Then we could get a 3 day rest as well.
macjack09 - January 16, 2012
And I noticed that the Heat have 'only' played 4 games in the last 10 days...
…while the Bulls don’t have 3 days off all season until April 22-24, just before the last 2 games of the regular season?? (Unless I counted wrong, except for what I assume must be the All-Star break the last week of February, when the Bulls get 5 days off and the Heat 6.)
Although, it may work out for the better to start the playoffs with a lighter schedule at the end of the season, between @Miami, Dallas, @Indiana.
Sweetness Lives On - January 16, 2012
the more Jimmy play the more that Deng can Rest..
and Jimmy is playin like a pro every time he enters a game…..hes over 94% FG.
RED_BULL - January 16, 2012
I really don't see the harm in giving Butler some of Deng's minutes and Brewers. He might
make some mistakes here and there, but not enough to be a true detriment to the team. He’ll gain some needed experience, and give those two some rest, which would make them fresher for the game. More energy from Deng and Brewer = higher chance of success.
BlackStar - January 16, 2012
Derrick Rose and Kobe Bryant Named Player of the Week.
RED_BULL - January 16, 2012
happy to see CJ back
He’s much better than Lucas against teams that can actually play basketball. Noah….smh.
Slick Ric - January 16, 2012
Lucas
is like the guy you play a pickup game with, that refuses to look to pass and chucks it every chance he gets
ThorCo - January 17, 2012
I...Don't get that kobe commercial
But I lmao’d
T.Moore - January 16, 2012
hey, did rose's toe get worse?
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
Re-aggrevated.
RED_BULL - January 16, 2012
shit, last game right?
might as well keep him out tomorrow. no point against a team like the sun. let cj run the point.
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
If they sit him tomorrow he will only play on Friday
that’s a good a rest as one can get in this season
JustAnotherFan - January 16, 2012
yes and deserves it
and more good news is that i heard rip is comin back too.
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
Thibs is currently debating whether he should sit him out to get some rest, or play him every single minute
There is no in-between.
Juiceboxjerry - January 16, 2012
with CJ back, i hope that changes thibs mind
I think CJ is mroe capable running the point than JLIII!
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
I do think he should alter minutes for Deng as well. 39 in a doomed game is pointless.
Sandberg's evil twin - January 16, 2012
the 76ers are looking pretty good
good depth, great guard play, everyone knows their roles, and unlike the Bulls, everyone is contributing. No D. Rose on that team, though. Tough 2nd round out for whoever they play.
Basketball Smurf - January 16, 2012
I want Iggy
macjack09 - January 16, 2012
It also helps that they have 2-3 guys
who can consistently break down opposing defenses with dribble penetration. Yeah, Philly looks pretty good.
bryield - January 16, 2012
yeah, when the bulls have games like this
it makes me wish we had got Jamal Crawford. I’m still waiting to give Rip a chance, but when this team plays, you see how much they need another creator on the team.
Basketball Smurf - January 16, 2012
yup yup yup
everyone was complaining about jamal’s deficiencies on defense and what not but we already have such a strong defensive team that the only thing we are really missing is another guy who can create his own shot and offense.
really needed a guy like jamal
sin - January 16, 2012
and the thing is, rip's defense has been terrible when he's played
i don’t know if that is the injury or old age though.
Basketball Smurf - January 16, 2012
I noticed that too
I let the first game go by because it was Kobe, but I noticed that defensively, he was way over-hyped. Honestly, I kind of don’t mind him missing time right now because we need a fresh player for late in the season, but the fact he has missed more than he’s played is quite concerning. Especially since CJ dislocated his elbow and got back before him.
macjack09 - January 16, 2012
Sam Smith (warning: take with grain of salt) had an interesting comment
in his rankings column. He usually isn’t so quick to jump to conclusions re trades with new players (link):
I wonder if the combination of the Noah/Boozer problems (or, maybe just Noah?) and Hamilton’s absence will force the Bulls to make a move prior to the deadline.
bryield - January 16, 2012
Bulls won't trade Noah for anyone but Howard at the moment
They love him too much. They’ll give him every chance to get back to the way he’s used to playing
Option27 - January 16, 2012 via mobile
SERIOUSLY!
we need the Butler to do it…
inkybreath - January 16, 2012
Other than the Heat, that's the team that most scares me
They’re sound defensively, and have guys that can be Rose stoppers in Holiday and Igoudala.
Juiceboxjerry - January 16, 2012
this is why i want the bulls to lock the 1st seed
i woudl rather have the heat get worn and beaten down by these fuckers!
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
the knicks will take us out in the 1st round
sin - January 16, 2012
You fu...nvm
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
If they make it that far
macjack09 - January 16, 2012
lol sin i love you
MartyMondays - January 16, 2012 via mobile
Good one
Wait, that’s for real?
poker_punker - January 16, 2012
Change your sig.
kpd - January 17, 2012
To be fair your scared list is long isn't it?
Sandberg's evil twin - January 16, 2012
you think thats long?
ask him for his most hated list
sin - January 16, 2012
Nah, not really
Heat and Sixers are probably the only two teams that I’m legitimately concerned about at this point, in the East
Juiceboxjerry - January 16, 2012
Also, don't forget that the Sixers handled us fairly easily last year the last two times we played them
And one of those games was at home.
Juiceboxjerry - January 16, 2012
we played them 3 times last year and in the first game we won by 50
kpd - January 17, 2012
45
and lost the next two in pretty “convincing” fashion.
chicity773 - January 17, 2012
How in the world?!!?
…have the Clippers only played 9 games so far and we’ve played 15?!?
JaReuter21 - January 16, 2012
yeah, you can thank david stern and his schedulers
fuck david stern
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
oh me oh my
WalmartSecurity - January 16, 2012
I asked that on saturday and it's even more glaring now.
Sandberg's evil twin - January 16, 2012
Id rather play more games early rather than later in the season.
Krandle - January 16, 2012
The Clippers
also share their arena with an NBA & an NHL team. Plus, to echo Krandle, I’d rather have the schedule front-loaded than back-loaded
torch - January 16, 2012
we share ours
with a Circus, Ice show and a Hockey team
ThorCo - January 17, 2012
Damn I want Iggy
macjack09 - January 16, 2012
Probably not great news about Rose's injury, but I guess it could be worse.
And it’s definitely a good idea to keep him out of Tuesday’s game.
bryield - January 16, 2012
damn I take that as pretty bad news
if Rose says it’s at a “6 or 7” then it’s like closer to 9 or 10.
Rose Colored Goggles - January 16, 2012
*likely
and yes, that was a giant assumption.
Rose Colored Goggles - January 16, 2012
Not that giant of a statement. He's making it seem like he wants to play but the organization wants him as healthy as possible.
I can’t say I disagree there. It’s all about playoffs now. Anything to make him healthier for the playoffs I support.
Brigade17 - January 16, 2012
You mean its probably 3
rose has no tolerance for pain, everytime he falls it looks like he is about to die
Trey23 - January 16, 2012
Playing him in that game, when we have two off days afterwards, would be ridiculous
Even if Thibs wanted him to go, I could see Garpax stepping in. Especially if CJ is good to go
Juiceboxjerry - January 16, 2012
So, what you're saying is...
we could be on the verge of another tie-grabbing incident?
bryield - January 16, 2012
I swear if they start JL3 again...
ahh fuck it. sit him tomorrow. start Watson, and also start Butler. if we’re conceding a game, may as well see what Butler can do with a good amount of playing time.
kpd - January 17, 2012
I was at the game. Awful to watch, but I'm glad CJ's back. All this game made me think though was 'Dammit we need Dwight Howard'.
Brigade17 - January 16, 2012
i thought "dammit we need kobe"
kpd - January 17, 2012
Hmm
Obviously, given the latter two factors, Deng had to play almost 40 minutes again…
bryield - January 16, 2012
I love how he’s so considerate of rest for the bad players
Juiceboxjerry - January 16, 2012
Yeah,
if he was so concerned about tomorrow and the big deficit was too much to overcome, why the hell were Lu and Brew out there for 37 and 39 minutes, respectively? He’s clearly lying. I’d be shocked if the Bulls front office isn’t hard at work trying to pull something off. We can see Booz and Jo stinking up the joint, surely they can.
dakoose - January 16, 2012
obviously thats what Noah and Boozer need
more rest lol
ThorCo - January 17, 2012
Hmmmm.........
The other lineup was working because Booz and Jo weren’t in it, most likely, so that’s an indictment on Booz/Noah, no? Same goes for the big deficit. Booz and Noah have loads to do with being down big. When your two bigs post 15 points and 12 boards while giving up 35 and 22, they’re kind of the reason the deficit is, ya know, big.
The bottom line is that if Boozer and Noah weren’t playing like shit and getting outplayed by their backups, which seems to happen every damn game, they would be out there late in games. Thibs actions speak for themselves; he doesn’t trust his ~30 million dollar men, plain and simple.
dakoose - January 16, 2012
To be fair, and I think this was pointed out by runningman in the game thread
The Bulls made their run on offense and defensive stops with Taj/Asik in, but Conley was also out at the time. When Conley came back in, Memphis pulled away again. (note: I will not confirm or deny that I may be reaching a bit here…)
bryield - January 16, 2012
I think its Bogans
Noah isn’t getting the chance to putback missed 3’s
ThorCo - January 17, 2012
Alright, this is the kind of game where people should be jumping on the
Boozer is trash bandwagon. I was at work and didn’t watch 1 second of the game, but seeing 13 and 7 off of 12 FGA and 2 trips to the line against fucking Speights tells me all I need to know. I’m thinking he probably took (at least) 7 or 8 J’s, had no dunks and missed a couple bunnies. Oh, and Speights took him for 16 and 12. Not only can he not score against a bum, but Booz can’t even D up a bum. He’s trash.
Y’all are telling me that they signed Booz for 15 million annually and, in a game without Rose where we need him to pick up the scoring, he gives you thirteen points?!?!? And the icing on the cake is that in the same amount of minutes, Taj goes 6-8 from the field and 4-4 from the line, giving you 16 points, 5 boards, 2 steals and 3 blocks.
Oh, and Noah brought some major suckage too. No scoring, rebounding or defense. Looks like he got eaten alive by Gasol Jr. If the starting bigs can’t give you a quality effort against a Speights/Marc Gasol frontcourt, what are they good for? Nobody cares about how Booz had a good night against Detroit, Washington or anybody else. When he was needed, with Rose out, he failed, like he does when the pressure’s on.
dakoose - January 16, 2012
Im going to hate this
Booz gets a nice game, Booz haters or likers will talk shit. talk shit about Taj when he has a bad game and blah. Taj does the same vice versa. Talk about how he should be a starter and amnesty booz and blah… Im getting sick of this shit and im beginning not to give a shit about this anymore…I don’t care how we win with who as long as we win….But this is gonna keep happening every game…So…Ugh..
T.Moore - January 16, 2012
Agreed
Just don’t understand why every mistake Boozer makes is so magnified. He’s fine. If Taj started people would be complaining about him being a black hole, and not a good enough rebounder.
Juiceboxjerry - January 16, 2012
Nobody's gonna be happy
which is why I stopped caring
T.Moore - January 16, 2012
the problem is one player is on a rookie contract while the other is one of the highest paid on the roster
More is expected of booze and he’s.not delivering
sin - January 16, 2012
Dude I dont care
It’s fucking annoying, almost at your level of annoyances ;)
T.Moore - January 16, 2012
let's see what happens when...
Taj gets his payday… It may change the leeway he gets now on his off-days…
inkybreath - January 16, 2012
why will anybody here give two shits about Taj having a bad game for New Orleans?
kpd - January 17, 2012
I really don't want to have a "Boozer defender" schtick
but I sincerely don’t get how you can call him trash. No, he’s probably not the perennial All Star, low post presence, we were hoping we were getting, but he’s far from terrible. If you want to see worthless, watch Noah play this season. On a team without many scoring options, Boozer has value. Add to that his improved defense, and his rebounding, and he is a very serviceable player.
Taj has played well, but as yfbb pointed out in the game thread, he’s in a role that is well suited for him. He’s far from perfect himself. The bottom line with our frontcourt is that we truly do need everyone (except Noah if he keeps playing this horribly)
Juiceboxjerry - January 16, 2012
agreed...
Boozer is playing far better than Noah. He is stroking the ball well from the outside, and is a bit more active defensively than last year. Noah, on the other hand, shows few signs of being able to regain anything like his best previous form.
Paul Warfield - January 16, 2012
People DO jump on Boozer for these kinds of games, actually too much, and then ignoring when he plays well.
You can argue that over all he isn’t quite as good as we need/want him to be, but he can’t say he sucks just by cherry-picking the few suckfests he has. Overall he’s like the Bulls 2nd leading scorer (per36) and 2nd behind Rose in PER (excluding Butler’s small sample size). He’s who we thought he was and really, for the most part, doing what he is being asked to do.
berzerkulous - January 16, 2012
This is why I hate this
Whenever one does well, 1 faction praise one and not the other, and vice versa. This is why I stopped caring about it. No objectivity all biased opinions. I.e the Boozer is ruining Noah schick I can see that Jo will have to worry about booz’s man too. But still there is clearly something else wrong with him. What is wrong with him? The hell I know.
T.Moore - January 16, 2012
Worrying about Boozers guy could be something
But damn I see absolutely NO fire from Noah whatsoever. The closest we got was Boston. What, he’s gotta play KG every night to get that hyped for games? Both of em are playing just terrible and if ones “ruining” the other or whatever, put 1 with the bench mob and keep the other 1 on a short leash. I would like to see Noah and Asik play together from time to time.
KCinIL - January 16, 2012
Noah with Asik...No offense but still it should help
He’s just different not the same dude. But Booz ruining him is a stretch, it’s not his fault that Jo losing some fire for some reason…But part of me feels like he’s waiting til the playoffs. Hopes tha’s the case
T.Moore - January 16, 2012
Cherrypicking?
I don’t understand anyone out there that can find anything positive about what Carlos Boozer brings to the table. Juice says he adds something, you say we’re cherrypicking. Come on guys.
Forget his contract or expectations for a moment. Understand the position Boozer plays. He’s a PF which stands for Power Forward. Unless he’s a rare breed like Dirk, his job is to get rebounds, defend his position, be a deterrent in the paint and an offensive presence in the paint. Can any Boozer supporter say he’s doing any of these things? Of course not.
Boozer using a fade away jumper as his first option to score is a killer on the offensive end if it doesn’t fall. Hell this dude is not even in a position to get double teamed! And I don’t care what anyone says, on the defensive end he’s making Noah have to do so much work that he’s literally ruining that guy. Some will say “Where’s the proof of that?” and I will say, tell me when Joakim Noah was consistently at his best? And I guarantee it wasn’t when Boozer was on the floor.
There’s no cherry picking and guys like Dakoose and myself have been consistent in criticizing him even when he plays well. Because if having a hot night shooting for him is the best he can ever be, then it’s not enough and he needs to go or in the meantime go to the bench.
Dils - January 16, 2012
He rebounds well.
There, I found something positive he does. And it didn’t take very long.
Now, I’m going to hold my breath and wait for someone to rebut with some magnificently stupid bullshit about how he doesn’t rebound that well in traffic.
Dogfishhead - January 16, 2012
He defensive rebounds well. There that was even quicker
And half the time those are rebounds that he’s grabbing from Deng or Noah and today’s game was a great example of that. He fights harder for those than offensive rebounds against opposing teams. What else you got that he does well that warrants him starting or being an impactful player for this team? I’ll wait…
Dils - January 16, 2012
scores
and pretty efficiently at that
Rose Colored Goggles - January 16, 2012
Not really.
He’s a jump shooter at this point in his career. 13 ppg on 12 shots and 1 trip to the line for a big ain’t shit. That’s 1 point per possession. It’s OK, but when a guy is here PURELY for offense, and like Dils said, needs to be hot in order to get those numbers, it’s not nearly good enough.
dakoose - January 16, 2012
1 point per possession is actually pretty decent.
But I agree that if we’ve already seen Boozer’s best with the few games he was hitting all the outside shots, then I’m not impressed. I want his to best to 30/15 and the 18/8 games to be consistent.
I’m not a Boozer hater, I think he’s too valuable to just straight up amnesty (unless we KNOW we’re signing Love or something), but he does have to get better and be more aggressive.
After this game, I think I switched to the “start Gibson” crowd. Still give Booz minutes so he can produce and prove himself again. But start Gibson.
Micdiddy - January 16, 2012
Moreover, his play warrants him more time on the floor than Joakim's has this entire season.
Dogfishhead - January 16, 2012
Well, you've established he's the tallest midget in the frontcourt.
Mazel Tov, but it doesn’t really build a case for him.
dakoose - January 16, 2012
Come on man, this is just silliness:
Did the guy diss you when you tried to get an autograph or something?
Personally, I wouldn’t mind seeing Boozer get hurt so that people can see what the team looks like without him for a little while
Juiceboxjerry - January 16, 2012
Juice we already saw that
And with that we saw a better defensive team and a better Noah. You guys are acting like he’s a factor on this team. Like without Boozer, this team can’t function and win games. And to say that this team had the best record in the league with his starting is like saying this team had the best record with Bogans starting. I mean, so what? There’s more to it than that.
Dils - January 16, 2012
No I'm not trying to say that it's imperative that Carlos Boozer is on this team, I didnt' mean to imply that. Taj would do just fine in the starting line up.
But it seems to me like the outrage is misguided quite a bit. Noah’s the problem here.
Dogfishhead - January 16, 2012
Well, at least for me,
I’m all over Jo, too. To be in the league as long as he has and not have any scoring skills is kind of crazy. No moves, no post-game, no shot, it’s messed up.
dakoose - January 16, 2012
That's not what I'm saying at all
We wouldn’t suck without him, but he’s a very helpful player. He’s good. That’s it, that’s what I’m trying to say. When you guys are acting like he’s totally worthless, I find it a bit odd
Juiceboxjerry - January 16, 2012
Yeah, that's all I can figure. Dils has lost the ability to be objective on this one, it seems.
Pending Iranian Nuclear Crisis: Boozer.
The national deficit: Boozer’s Fault.
The time I failed twelfth grade: Fuck you, Boozer.
The fall of Man: Boozer, you fat fuck.
Mosquitoes: Were Boozer’s idea.
…
….
……
Dogfishhead - January 16, 2012
Whatever with all that extra nonsense
I half that sarcastic BS you and Juice were typing were valid, Boozer’s sorry ass wouldn’t be glued to the bench most games. I don’t have the burden of proof here, you guys do. Talking about efficiency, defensive rebounds has nothing to do with why this guy isn’t effective. Thibs already knows it.
Dils - January 16, 2012
Exactly.
Thibs’s actions are backing up our sentiments here, not theirs. If Boozer really did bring all that stuff to the table, why is his ass on the bench in crunch time? We know why, they don’t seem to.
dakoose - January 16, 2012
My point, is that whatever ineffectiveness Boozer posits, Joakim is doubling right now.
That’s the rub. Now, admittedly, you criticize Boozer when he plays well. When he rebounds, it’s because it’s taking it from other people that—what(?)—have dibs on the rebounds. When he shoots well, he, you know, shouldn’t be shooting outside of ten feet.
I’m not prepared to call him a second option on a championship caliber team, either, but I’m saying that I don’t think Boozer is the biggest problem in the starting line up right now.
Dogfishhead - January 16, 2012
Right
I’m not saying Boozer is amazing either. But he’s just not one of the major problems on this team at the moment. Noah’s suckage is ten times more of a concern at this point
Juiceboxjerry - January 16, 2012
im starting to think hes fuckin half assing it
two games he looked good and now he sucks? either that or he just cant play with booz in the lineup. I dont think hes injured at all.
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
Not really, because we have a stud defender who can step right in at the moment.
Booz is supposed to be able to score 20 ppg, the Bulls didn’t bring in a 13 ppg scorer for all that money. The Bulls don’t have a guy on the bench who can bring that production. Fortunately, they have a guy on the bench who overall, is a better player, but Taj doesn’t bring the scoring punch either.
dakoose - January 16, 2012
So, what you're saying is...
Jo Noah playing like absolute dogshit right now is somehow mitigated by Asik’s presence on the bench. Whereas, Boozer not going 20 and 10 is somehow more detrimental to the team even considering Gibson’s spot next to Asik on the bench?
Now, I get the fury that failed expectations can bring about, but this is the type of nonsensical badgering of Boozer that’s annoying.
Dogfishhead - January 16, 2012
That's exactly what I'm saying.
The two issues are not equal. Noah is more fungible than Booz. Asik can bring what Noah brings, and more. I wouldn’t have an issue if they swapped Noah and Asik right now. However, the Boozer issue is more troubling because even though I think Taj could be more productive with Booz’s minutes, he doesn’t do the things that Boozer was supposed to do any more than Booz does. The type of stuff that Boozer is “supposed to be” doing can only be done by him, and when he’s not doing those things, it hurts more than when Jo doesn’t do his things, because Jo’s things can be done by Omer.
dakoose - January 16, 2012
So...in all of that, I think I deciphered that Boozer has failed to meet expectations...
which I agree with. Totally. Though, Jo has failed in more spectacular fashion—not only can Jo not do typical Jo things. He can’t even hold the fucking basketball. Whereas, granted, Boozer does a few things well, Noah is doing no things, not one thing, well.
Dogfishhead - January 16, 2012
Listen, you may be right in that Noah
is the more spectacular failure, but in the big picture it’s not as big of a deal because Noah’s production is replaceable by giving Omer more minutes. Furthermore, that may even be an upgrade.
With Booz, what he is supposed to be is a crutch to lean on in the half court. Whether or not Taj is better doesn’t change the fact that Booz was brought here to do something special. Not just that, but he was brought here to do something that nobody else on the team can do. Therein lies the rub. His failure may not be spectacular, but who gives a shit about that? What matters is which failure hurts more, and the answer is Booz’s.
dakoose - January 16, 2012
... And that's where we disagree
because I don’t think he’s been a “failure”
Juiceboxjerry - January 16, 2012
True
Everything your first paragraph said is the truth. It’s not fair because it’s not suppose to be. What you think he’s making 80mil because he’s a great guy? No. He is brought in to do what Dakoose said and that has nothing to do with Noah.
Dils - January 16, 2012
Well here's my deal
My deal is that right now Boozer is a Pick and pop PF. That’s it. All he does is sit 18 fee\et out and shoot jumpers. Now to me that’s not enough. So anytime he goes out there and goes 11/13 from the field, people say “Hey look at that efficient Boozer. Where are all the Boozer haters!”
My point is that all you got was a hot shooting night from your PF. That’s not going to work. Especially because he can’t do that every night. That’s great for Kyle Korver but not for a guy who was suppose to take heat off Rose by being a presence in the paint. That shot will always be there because teams would rather he take that shot. He doesn’t even attempt to go on the block.
Then you add in his defensive liabilities and what you get that is all or nothing. Either he’s unbelievable from the field shooting or he shouldn’t be on the court because any other positive he has I can get from like 2-3 other players. He’s basically a PF version of Kyle Korver
Dils - January 16, 2012
Ok
this made me laugh
T.Moore - January 16, 2012
That's bullshit.
If he were really a great rebounder, he would have at least one season in which he was top ten in ORB%. Well…….he doesn’t. He grabs a bunch of easy defensive boards per game and sprinkles in a tough one here or there. Just hanging around the rim guarantees a big 6-7 a night, unless you’re Eddy Curry.
dakoose - January 16, 2012
Could it be that they just look easy because he's very good at boxing out?
We’ve had the best rebounding team in the league two years running, he has to have something to do with that
Juiceboxjerry - January 16, 2012
I would buy that if I didn't watch games,
but I see him grab so many rebounds off missed free throws it’s not even funny. Like I said, he does grab a tough one here and there, but I see a lot more easy ones in there. And I’ll say it again, good rebounders are good rebounders and if he was that good he wouldn’t only be productive on one end of the floor.
dakoose - January 16, 2012
ive seen him steal rebounds man
When he was injured Taj and Noah held shit down.
MartyMondays - January 16, 2012 via mobile
I watched this game and the last game and saw at least three rebounds he just plain stole from other people
one he actually knocked out of bounds, causing a freakin’ turnover.
Prevenge - January 16, 2012
Yea that one
where he tried to take it from Noah causing the balling to go out of bounds pissed me off big time.
He does it far too often.
chicity773 - January 17, 2012
You're right, he's a total slug
Even though we had the best record in the league last year with him starting. Have the best record in the league right now with him starting. He basically won 50 games every year while he was in Utah. He’s been second in PER to Derrick since he arrived. He’s our best rebounder. A very good passer for a big man. He’s our best scorer besides Rose. AND he’s a great teammate. But let’s just keep talking about the AMAZING year Ronnie Brewer is having because he doesn’t cost nearly as much money.
Guess what? There’s not a lot of guys in the league that do all these things at the level that you want Boozer to do them at:
And they’re extremely hard to find. Unfortunately, it looks like Boozer will have to leave the team for fans to realize that, hey, he really wasn’t that bad.
Juiceboxjerry - January 16, 2012
well said
I can’t think of too many PFs not on rookie contracts that are better AND cheaper than Boozer. I think David Lee might make ~1mil less than Booz, but put him on our slower paced team and his numbers would probably be worse than Boozer’s.
Rose Colored Goggles - January 16, 2012
Well, let's get something straight.
I don’t give a shit about PER or record. The first is not that important to me and the second is a team stat. We won a billion games with Keith starting and won plenty of games with Kurt instead of Jo, should we have given them starting jobs?
I’d rather be starting Brandon Bass than Booz, and all he cost was one overweight, fat piece of crap. David West was gotten on the cheap. Beyond that, I get it, we have Booz and that’s that. But Taj should be getting 30 minutes, not Booz.
dakoose - January 16, 2012
Yeah, good luck with that. I’d love to see what you’d say if Bass was actually starting on this team, because clearly you haven’t watched him play very much. He’s not as good a scorer, or rebounder as Booz, and he’s nothing defensively
As for not giving a shit about PER, I’m not sure why that would be the case unless you’re intentionally trying to avoid knowing things in the event that they don’t jive with what you’re seeing on tv. PER is a great stat.
Juiceboxjerry - January 16, 2012
Well....in 27 mpg he's giving the Celtics
12 and 6.5 per game. In 29 mpg, Booz gives the Bulls 13.5 and 8.3 per game, and that’s without having a threat like DRose out there with him. With a guy like Bass, Rose and Deng would get more shots off, which I prefer over Booz getting touches anyways, and Bass would be down there cleaning the trash and knocking down J’s, which I’ve seen him do really well in the 5 or 6 Celtics games I’ve seen from him this season.
More importantly, he’s stronger than Booz, more athletic and brings in a more complete offensive/defensive package to the table.
dakoose - January 16, 2012
You value $$$ over PER, that's fine.
But your Brandon Bass argument doesn’t make any sense. They’re essentially the same exact player at this point. They’re scoring at almost exactly the same rate, at the same percentage, in pretty much the same ways. Boozer rebounds more, which is important, and gets more assists, which is important, and more steals, which is important, but these things aren’t important because you believe that he is stronger and more athletic, despite having no evidence of such. Now there is analysis!
jpm356 - January 16, 2012
No point in arguing with someone who hasn't watched Bass play.
I’ve seen him come out of a crowd and power dunk 2 handed from a stand still this season. I’ve seen him play plenty; he plays stronger, moves better and jumps higher. Is that so damn hard to understand?
dakoose - January 16, 2012
I actually like Bass quite a bit and have for a while.
It’s just hard to understand an argument that values “big boy basketball” to such an extent that actual productivity on the court is ignored.
jpm356 - January 16, 2012
It's a stat skewed in favor of big men and overrates a lot of players in the league.
It also highly disregards defense. I’ll look at it at times, but it’s far down the list of things I use when I evaluate players, way, way behind the eye test.
dakoose - January 16, 2012
No stat is perfect
But to just dismiss it because it might favor big men a little is silly. I think it does a pretty damn good job overall
Juiceboxjerry - January 16, 2012
Then your boy KLove really is the greatest ballplayer on the planet.
Isn’t he the king of PER?
I’m being sarcastic, BTW.
dakoose - January 16, 2012
haha, like I said, the stat ain't perfect
Juiceboxjerry - January 16, 2012
Well, you confirmed that you didn't watch the game.
Speights did most of his damage early with Noah on him, while Boozer was left on Gasol who was pretty quiet until the end (and did his damage against Taj/Omer). Boozer had one bad defensive possession against Gasol, and Noah had a pretty bad turn against Speights, but otherwise they did most of their damage on mid-range jumpers, where Speights started 3-3 or something.
Taj came in and played well, but to use a cherry-picked game that you didn’t even watch to prove your whole “Booz is trash argument,” is completely ignorant.
jpm356 - January 16, 2012
Really?
You trying to tell me that in a game without Rose, the supposed go-to big man gives you 13 and 8 and that’s a good game? Not ignorant at all. Both bigs feasted and Booz was out there for 27 minutes, you’re trying to tell me he played good D??
dakoose - January 16, 2012
I'm trying to tell you that it is stupid to act like you know what happened in a game you didn't watch.
jpm356 - January 16, 2012
Well, I know what happened.
I know that Booz didn’t do what he was signed to do. Score a lot of points.
dakoose - January 16, 2012
Jesus.
Dogfishhead - January 16, 2012
Don't worry...you got it right
Boozer was horrid on defense and the Bulls weren’t competitive in that game until Boozer’s ass was benched and I saw the damn game. It’s not rocket science to know what he didn’t do on the court. Taj look every bit like the better player and even had a back to the basket score that Boozer hasn’t had all season.
Dils - January 16, 2012
Yeah, and they just showed some numbers from that game on TNT,
and the Grizzlies got almost 70 points in the paint, which is Boozer land. And this jpm fella might have a point if my issues with Booz stemmed from today’s game; I’ve been on this train since last season. My initial post in this thread was an appeal to all the Booz lovers to see the light and realize how much of a dog this guy is.
dakoose - January 17, 2012
I wanted to establish that Boozer does something, and that that something is infinitely more than the nothing
you constantly give him credit for is.
Dogfishhead - January 16, 2012
eat up cap space?
sin - January 16, 2012
I think part of Boozer's problem
Is that he was hot for the first portion of the game, and then he sat for 12 minutes before entering the game again.
BananaReel - January 16, 2012
I was surprised
That he sat that long.
Joninja - January 16, 2012
well, at least the bulls are facing the suns tomorrow and the cavs on friday
i think rose should be out even against the cavs. There is no point risking Rose’s season against these kind of teams.
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
Shit....the Bulls can easily lose both of those games.
dakoose - January 16, 2012
True, Cleveland is actually playing pretty well
But I’d still be more than willing to risk it if it helped Rose get better
Juiceboxjerry - January 16, 2012
If CJ is back and ready to roll, I totally agree
In fact, if he needs it, rest him until the Miami game, or longer if he needs it. We’ve built up a nice cushion, and a healthy Rose is far more important than playoff seeding.
That being said, the concern is that he’s said this is a problem he’s had on and off for a while. So you have to wonder if it’s even possible for him to get the rest and treatment he needs during the season. I wish someone besides Thibs gladiator ass would come out and tell the people what exactly the issue is here. I mean, I don’t even know what the gd injury is at this point. it’s still unclear if it’s turf toe, or what. He’s the franchise player, people want to know these things
Juiceboxjerry - January 16, 2012
its a sprained toe and a sprained toe can be aggravating b.c i have suffered an injury like his before
its irritating and only goes away by resting for at least 5 DAYS. Let him rest all the way till saturday and by then, he should be ready.
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
I believe Noah shouldn't even post up against anyone and Butler should spell Deng....
Noah should focus solely on defense, rebounding, and the occasional pass. If he gets a chance to tip in a rebound or dunk it quickly, then go for it. Otherwise, he should only focus on those three things. It’s clear that he is not even an average offensive player and never will be. He’s a center who is shooting 39 percent from the field…..without even taking a lot of shots. If he isn’t rebounding or defending well (as has been the case for almost the entire season), put Asik in. Asik is looking more competent on offense than Noah and also looks better on defense this year. It isn’t that I don’t want Noah to do well, but something is clearly lacking.
Deng is near the top of the league in minutes played. Every time Butler comes in, he looks like a polished veteran player. He plays smoothly and confidently with no hesitance to drive towards the basket. He takes smart, efficient shots or he passes it out to one of his teammates. He can also play spot minutes at the 2 when Korver isn’t hitting his shots. I see no reason why Butler shouldn’t be playing at least 8-12 minutes per game. He isn’t yet a three point threat at this early stage of his career, but he clearly knows his limitations. He seems to do basically everything at an above average level, and he’s got some size. By the end of the season, I hope we see Butler cracking the rotation. I’m not saying he is the answer and I’m sure he’ll make his fair share of mistakes, but the kid seems talented and consistent.
Let me know what you guys think.
xshwanger - January 16, 2012
I've been saying that about Jo for ages.
He should be relegated to junkyard dog status. Tip ins, dunks short jump hooks when he’s open….that’s it. All defense, all hustle and the occasional bucket.
With regards to Butler, it’s no big deal. Maybe he should get some playing time, maybe he shouldn’t, but a few minutes here and there won’t change all that much.
dakoose - January 16, 2012
I've been to two games this year...
And both times before the game, I see Noah working on his jumpshot (jumpshit). He should be working on his feet, dunks, layups, tip ins. That jumpshot will never be a consistent weapon.
xshwanger - January 16, 2012
If anything, I'd like to see Butler sub in for Kyle quicker if he isn't shooting well
Protocol - January 16, 2012
I agree. Why shouldn’t Butler earn some of Kyle’s minutes if he isn’t shooting well? All Butler does is play sound defense, take good shots, not commit fouls, and take care of the ball without turning it over.
xshwanger - January 16, 2012
Noah
I’d love to see Noah play like Rodman did, because both are defensive-minded, high energy players on teams that need them. Like you said, he should expend less energ on offense, and more on getting in the opponents face.
As for Butler, I would love to see his minutes increase. Deng’s minutes are out of control, and I get nervous every game when I see him play 40+. Once Rose returns, I see no reason why Deng can’t rest more often.
abock15 - January 16, 2012
You know something is right when everyone is shouting "NOAH SUCKS"
CALM DOWN Y’ALL!!! Memphis is a pretty good team. Our guys were tired, sloppy and not shooting that great. Rose was absent. 25 pts per out of your line-up isn’t easy to make up, especially given our offense has been so up and down and Boozer isn’t who we thought he was (sorry Dennis Green)!!!
BullsFan22 - January 16, 2012
But so far this year, Noah has sucked...
shooting 39 percent as a center? And he isn’t even grabbing a lot of rebounds or playing great defense. And this is a team we beat by 40 last time…
xshwanger - January 16, 2012
I wonder who on BaB
would trade Noah for Reggie Evans straight up?
Micdiddy - January 16, 2012
You are joking, right?
BullsFan22 - January 16, 2012
boozer IS who we thought he was
i thought he was playing super to start today. did a little team defense too. speights (vs noah) and conley (vs lucas) were killin’. rudy gay was making kobe-like shots, unguardable. gasol hit several 24sec buzzer beaters in the 2nd half, foiling excellent team defense.
noah had some moves, some energy too. but it was near comical but (only for non-chi fans) how he simply could not get the ball to drop in.
i knew boozer wasn’t that good, but i thought we’d be getting (affordably, lol!) joe johnson too. there’s your second scorer, big 2 defender, other go to guy.
how long until the noah/boozer combo can be called a failure?
it would probably be fine if booz was out…. he wouldn’t be missed… but then kurt thomas would! (which is a way of saying the bulls, sadly, need boozer.)
marionette - January 16, 2012
oh yea,
brewer had a very rough game, imo.
marionette - January 16, 2012
Brewer just isn't a starting two
I forget where I read or saw it, but someone was talking about the importance of spacing on a basketball team. And how you are really gimping your offense by not having 2-3 shooters on the floor at all times, no matter how good the player(s) playing are. I recognize that Ronnie does multiple things well, and I really like the guy, but I constantly question whether it’s even worth having him on the floor at times considering the way he gets his points. Even if he’s shooting well, it’s more of a result of him being wide open because the opposing team doesn’t bother. And I fear when Rip returns, Thibs will revert to less playing time for Korver, which would not be wise imo (although he could just play Lu less, but we all know that ain’t happenin’)
Juiceboxjerry - January 16, 2012
yep. first bad game from ronnie i can think of.
marionette - January 16, 2012
Well, that was the trade the front office people gambled on.
Can’t blame anyone else for it…well, you can, you can blame Boozer for not being as good as he should. I do agree about Joe Johnson or another similar player that can play solid, allround ball and be a good 2nd option. Noah has to improve other aspects of his game. He doesn’t need to become an offensive threat, but it would be nice if he can do some damage in the paint and score more points. Everyone needs to chip in when Rose is out, that’s obvious, I hope. Deng has been good. I think he has been really, really good for us since the beginning of last season. Taj and CJ had good games today, perhaps Thibodeau can sort of tinker the starting line-ups, and see what the best combinations could be. We have guys that can score, given the right match-ups, it’s consistency that we are after though.
BullsFan22 - January 16, 2012
my only real criticism of the game
might be thibs not trusting his bench wings as much as he trusts his bench big men. To me that is the biggest cause of concern, or maybe rather, the thing i want the most explanation of. I think the amazing comeback that occured happened when the lineup was, cj, korver, brewer, taj, asik. We got the lead cut down, deng came back in (with rudy gay ) and the bulls got out ran. I think deng should have remained on the bench at least for a little while more. Brewer and even korver had fresher legs, i know korver sort of botched some box outs and had trouble moving on screens, but defensively asik and taj were holding it down. Certainly you could have rode korver a bit more. Cj, korver, and brewer could have potentially lit it up from 3pt land, and let asik and taj clean up.
Deng really DESRVES rest, and i think boozer and noah need to stay on the court and work off whatever they are doing wrong.
I wanna say there is more going on than the org wants to tell us, and its possible the two are sitting so much to prevent injury so that a trade can occur at the deadline. Of course, i cant prove my theory until another month has passed..if no trade happens, i expect to see boozer and noah playing far more minutes
piccolomair - January 16, 2012
Well, I don't "completely" disagree, but...
Wouldn’t their poor performances (especially Noah, imo) detract from any potential trade deal? In other words, I imagine the Bulls FO would prefer seeing Noah/Boozer consistently perform well in order to enhance their trade value, if they’re considering moving one or both at all (which I highly doubt, anyway).
bryield - January 16, 2012
i think theres possibly already some slight injury
consider this, when they play well, thibs certainly rides them. Part of why boozers per is so damn high is because thibs really has only played him when he has been playing well. I think in terms of trading as well, creating this air of “well this player didnt get that much time for whatever reason due to thibs” is a nice excuse for the organization to fall back on, and then they can point to the few times they played (well) and past achievements. Its not perfect by all means, but im just thinking its possible. I hold thibs in high regard in terms of basketball knowledge, so im just trying to grasp at reasons why someone i think is so smart is constantly creating this bad image for two of the more paid players and yet playing a third player so hard….its sort of weird…speculations are due i suppose
piccolomair - January 16, 2012
this
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
i forgot to mention korver above, but my recollection was that he was pathetic today
so i checked the box: -9 in 17min and 0 for everything. 1 reb. 1 foul.
marionette - January 16, 2012
i think offensively korver will always be a threat to shoot
even if hes 0-12, i think when hes on the floor teams always have to consider the fear of him making the next one, especially when the score is so close to single digits deficits. The bulls staple is their defense, and teams know that, the worse thing you want is to have the bulls get two stops and consecutively knock down 2 3s. A 10 point lead suddenly becomes 4, and young teams like memphis can possibly start to fold, especially when you have guys like conley and gay who might suddenly decide to vary from the gameplan for a hero move….I think moreso the point also is, we have pretty great depth at the wing position, and like everyone keeps saying, deng certainly could have, and SHOULD HAVE gotten some more rest. He was part of the reason i think the close game became a blow out again.
piccolomair - January 16, 2012
i agree the bulls need korver out there, and that deng needs to play less.
but the only play that deng had as part of “the close game becoming a blowout again” was his (“my bad”) turnover on the sideline outlet. that play was surrounded by several great late plays by deng (and taj… and omer). deng was great throughout. (i thought he looked more fatigued in the 1st half!)
this was not a close game. memphis got rattled, but then cranked up their (very capable) defense on a rose-less bulls.
marionette - January 16, 2012
i wish blogabull had a "ignore" button and "lists"
i could easily “ignore” the “anti boozer” crowd because there is nothing meaningful in their analysis, at all.
anorexorcist - January 16, 2012
You can always scroll past it you know.
Works just as well
Dils - January 16, 2012
Yeah, our points are so meaningless that Thibs agrees.
How else do you explain the 25 million dollar duo on the bench in fourth quarters? It’s not because they’re awesome, I’ll tell you that much.
dakoose - January 17, 2012
Well...
praise be to god for that prognosis.
Dogfishhead - January 17, 2012
the more i think about it
the more i think we are destined to be this decade’s cavs.
deep team built around 1 star that can dominate the regular season because of superstar + elite defense combo
but come playoff time its just too much to ask of one guy to shoulder the entire load
sin - January 16, 2012
You realize that the guy that won the MVP
was on our team last year. And that he was twenty two years of age, right?
Dogfishhead - January 16, 2012
you realize the cavs had the back to back MVP right?
sin - January 16, 2012
you realize that Lebron went went just as far with the Heat that he did with the Cavs
illwill - January 16, 2012 via iPhone app
but Bosh/Wade
is better than anything else the Cavs had, Heat will be a threat for the next 5 years
ThorCo - January 17, 2012
they're talking about us being like the cavs w/lebron, not what the heat are like now vs the cavs w/lebron.
SidM - January 17, 2012
ya but look at the comment I replied to
he’s comparing the Heat to the Cavs
ThorCo - January 17, 2012
So to sum up the conversation
1. We’re like lebron’s cavs
2. We’re better than lebron’s cavs, argument being that having a 22 yr old MVP is awesome sauce
3. counter point that lebron was MVP twice in a row then.
4. counter-counter point arguing that the heat now are comparable to lebron’s cavs in terms of accomplishments.
5. Point that bosh/wade>cavs non-lebron players
Is that relevant to the idea that we’re turning into the Lebron Cavs? I realize that you’re replying to a heat related comment, but we’ve drifted a bit from the original assertion.
SidM - January 17, 2012
isn't that what BAB is all about?
ThorCo - January 18, 2012
Certainly. And it's valid criticism based on a relatively small sample size.
But valid criticism given the size of the shit floating around in the punchbowl today. But, all I’m saying is, if you can believe the rhetoric coming from the org about Howard, not everything is cemented as is—and as such—I don’t think we’re destined to be Cleveland, given the time we have with Rose here.
Dogfishhead - January 16, 2012
this team is better than the cavs team
the cavs team had shitty tole players and he didnt have the talent rose has right now.
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
the first thing may be true
Rose isn’t at the level of Cavs LeBron. Remember when he eviscerated the Pistons defense by himself to carry a crappy team to the finals? Me neither BECUZ HIS SELL FONE HASNO REENGZZZZZ LOL
your friendly BullsBlogger - January 16, 2012
channelling your inner sin?
sin - January 16, 2012
The super star on those Cavs teams also wasn't the killer Rose is nor did they have as good a coach.
I’d like to think that our front office will be better at putting talent around him when the need arises.
2ndHalfAdjustments - January 16, 2012
exactly, my point
i mean, rose has one potential all star on his team while bron didnt. That already is a huge difference as it is.
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
look at our team without rose
they look like a bunch of overpaid role players
sin - January 16, 2012
without lebron, the cavs are shitty udner 500 team, the bulls are around close to .500
i dont care bout the overpaid part, the point is the bulls team has the better role players and the contracts are irrelevant when it comes to comparing talent.
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
yeah but lebron was better than rose is now
so its SUPER SUPER SUPER star + crap crap role players
vs SUPER star + role players
basically evens out. we are looking like the cavs. a one man show that aint going anywhere unless our management grows balls and goes out and gets another star.
sin - January 16, 2012
lmao, thats not how it works sin (with the formula you posted above)
there are alot more factors than having a super star and role players.
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
Do you mean Boozer, Deng or Noah?
2ndHalfAdjustments - January 16, 2012
Big Game Deng!
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
(Salutes). Coolness (we agree). But even so, I don't think any team can win a championship if Luol is the "second" best player on the squad.
2ndHalfAdjustments - January 16, 2012
depends on how noah will perform and what rip will do for this team coming playoff time
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
we are overrating rose if you start telling me rose is a better player than lebron
come on before the heat thing everyone wouldve easily admitted lebron was by far the best player in the league. back to back MVP. took a team of shit players to the finals. 30-8-8 threat every night.
sin - January 16, 2012
Talent-wise, there is no question LeBron is the better player. But, IMO, LeBron has a demonstrable history of 'shrinking' in critical moments.
Rose has made it clear he seeks those moments. Again, IMO, but I like that A LOT.
2ndHalfAdjustments - January 16, 2012
'shrinking' either willingly or subconciously.
2ndHalfAdjustments - January 16, 2012
Sheer physical skill isn't enough, for me. It requires an accompanying pathology.
MJ had it. Koby has it. I think Wade has it, honestly. LeBron, thus far, dose not. Rose does.
2ndHalfAdjustments - January 16, 2012
*Does.
2ndHalfAdjustments - January 16, 2012
Does he have the skills and size, though?
He has that persona, but we all watched the playoffs last season. He had a tough time in the playoffs, especially against Miami. When the game got into the half court, he struggled to score, and at the end of those games, Lebron had his numbers. I hope he’s got some more tricks this type around.
dakoose - January 17, 2012
yeah, def...plus...
he needs to also trust him team more and i hope with rip as the sg rose job would be a bit easier. He took some stupid shots last yr against the heat and i hope he learned from that.
Geo4MVP - January 17, 2012
I personally think that if Rose was the same size as LBJ, he'd wipe the floor with him.
He is at a disadvantage being 6’3’’. Even with a 40’’ vert, he can get banged around much easier than LeBron and is more susceptable for having his shot blocked. LeBron is pretty much the perfect basketball player in terms of athleticism and size, but I don’t think he is nearly as skilled as Kobe, KD, Wade or Rose. Mentally, he has issues as well.
What I just wrote may come off outlandish, but I hope you understand what I’m getting at.
Brigade17 - January 17, 2012
yo lets not get ahead of ourselves
lebron’s vision is better than rose’s imo
hes also a better man to man defender than rose and thats not just because of his size. his defensive instincts are better too.
sin - January 17, 2012
yeah, lebron is damn good passer if u ask me
idk why dont the heat assign him as the point forward?
Geo4MVP - January 17, 2012
who the hell is he going to pass it to?
wade is a ball stopper. bosh is a ball stopper. joel anthony cant do shit. all their shooters are shooting like crap or cant defend anything to stay out there long enough.
sin - January 17, 2012
so lebron can only pass to guys who won't shoot? okay, but that could make
assists hard to come by.
TheMoon - January 17, 2012
and also about the front office. i see similarities
they were too afraid in cleveland to do shit and make actual basketball trades because they were afraid to piss off lebron and trade one of his friends
here in chicago our front office is too scared to make any damn moves because of chemistry and being too afraid to piss anyone off
sin - January 16, 2012
I don't know. I feel like if a Howard deal were a real possibility, GarPax would make it happen.
But it isn’t clear if Howard would come here (albeit admittedly I don’t really know how much power he has to influence any trade [I don’t think anyone other than Howard or his agent really do]).
2ndHalfAdjustments - January 16, 2012
wow, the "doom and gloom" on this thread is quite amusing
lighten up guys. This team is fuckin 12-3 and alot of teams are playing sloppy.
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
wow, the 'hey this is our record I have nothing to actually say' crowd is here too.
your friendly BullsBlogger - January 16, 2012
just surprised to see what one game can do to a crowd, thats it
nothing wrong with complaining, but if this were to happen for consecutive games, then i can udnerstand. There is no mystery that this team is a .500 team without rose. Majroity of the plays run thru rose, lol.
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
It says quite a bit about how often you watch games
that you think this uproar is about one game.
dakoose - January 16, 2012
i watch the quite often actually
i already know the problems with this team regarding both noah and boozer. We know boozer cant do shit without rose feeding him the ball as well noah has been crap except the past two games. Its like beating a dead horse.
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
i have watched the games quite often actually*
we really need an edit button, lol.
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
and please, you dont know shit bout me
so dont assume that i dont watch the games.
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
he was saying you dont WATCH watch the games
sin - January 16, 2012
but i do and i dont liek the fact hes assuming that bout me
i take alot of pride into observing a players day-day performance, but at this point i dont see nothing new bout todays loss except watson is a solid pg.
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
how did you get watson is a solid pg from today's game
sin - January 16, 2012
solid backup pg*
sorry, typo.
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
i think its true that some of the overly complaining comments are annoying
but i dont think its bad in general to criticize the very real shortcomings of the team. We certainly are contenders, but the goal is to not just contend, but to win. Theres plenty to be thankful for on this team, but theres much to be fearful of. Everything seems , pardon the pun, rosey, while rose is playing and healthy, but very realistically, a rose injury (like the current one) is really all that seperates us from say the boston celtics. And unfortunately, its not even just not having rose, but in the playoffs we will find that our over reliance on rose may lead to our downfall as well.
I dislike the guys who just like to bring up every game regardless of boxscores and wins/losses how worthless boozer is (if nothing else, relative to his contract) how ‘high’ noah is playing, how non-superstar-ish deng is…….but while they are annoying, there certainly are valid concerns there. And i think the idea of this fanbase is to contemplate, needlessly perhaps, possible solutions to our flaws and weaknesses, consider realistic approaches to solutions, and hope we can maybe get a train of thought moving so fast that would force the bulls organization to change the product to appease its market.
So while being overzelaous in the bashing is quite annoying, i think i appreciate that unlike some fanbases, this one also refuses to become overzealous with the praise for this team and constantly sets the tone of the bulls as not just a team but a fanbase that wants nothing short of victory, and will work tediously to make winning possible in various situations.
I think ultimately right now, everyone is looking at these regular season games as gauges, and its not really about the immediate games, but questions and fears of what they can mean going into the future, say a game 3 of the ecf
piccolomair - January 16, 2012
its fine to critique players, but at this point people shouldnt be surprised that this team is pitiful without rose
boozer is past his prime. I think last year injuries are def hurting his produciton b.c he just doesnt have that strength to post up his players anymore. Why do i say this? Look at what happened after the Brown flagrant foul. That turf toe injury have really hurted his mobility permanently. I seemed to recall (I beleive it was macjack or Dr. Handsome) who stated big toe turf injuries never heal 100 percent and behold, I think thats why hes now relying on jumpers. You can say he sucks all the time, but at this point i have accepted this new boozer. Who’s fault is it for giving him a long contract? the front office obviously. I dont liek the length of the contract and never did realizing how old hell be by that time.
Noah on the other hand is a mystery. Idk wtf is wrong with him and nobody will ever know. We have speculated his shitty performance is due to a possible injury, dogging it and saving energy for the playoffs, or he boozy is effecting his performance. At this point, all you can do is hope he mans up and plays like the way he used to last yr. Speculating on his future is useless b.c at this pt with his shitty performance and contract hes not tradeable. All we can do is hope he improves or thibs benches him and plays asik over him.
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
with that said, the bulls are still number 1 in the east. We can worry all we want obut booz and noah, but its useless
Booz is gonna be like this for the whole yr and Noah can only go up from here and out.
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
hmmm
I think it certainly is a surprise we are pitiful without rose. Sure rose should be the guy that sends us over the edge, but to be pitiful without rose is to be, as somone mentioned above, the cavs when they had lebron. One of the biggest strengths of the bulls is supposed to be its insane depth and how good the rotation players are sans rose. Thats why guys like dwight should be lining up to come here right? So if we play a memphis team without THEIR most consistent scorer in z-bo, and look pitiful. Certainly that is a cause of concern. The problem i think people are having isnt that we lost, but that, like u said, we looked pitiful, not a single player, but as a team…
Right, and yet the organization just signed him last year. You cant always see things coming, and the truth is the organization HAD to sign someone because that cap space we had wasnt going to last any longer than that year. For that reason i think its ridiculous to constantly bring up boozers contract relative to pay. The bulls tried to give that contract to multiple other players, and the only one we really missed was lee. The contract boozer had, the money that was spent, was gonna be spent regardless, there were plenty of people before the signing that were already predicting a pretty crappy boozer. To me its simple, boozer just has to produce. It will never be defensively, so it will have to be offensively. Maybe he cant be that post player anymore, but to be honest, i dont think its that important for him to be that post player, as it is important for him to be a guy who can score close to 20 a game, whether it be jumpshots or inside buckets. If hes not producing, hes a liability, and if hes going to be on the bench so much, maybe its better to just amnesty him. Thats my issue with the ones who like to just trash on him even when he produces, they knock him even when he produces just cuz of how he produced. Thats ridiculous. I think his jumpshots actually help roses game more than his post play so its more important for him to have that constant offense. Lately its been inconsistent, and thats reason for concern.
No, noah not playing well is something to be fearful of. A lot of our success, and honestly a lot of roses success hinges on noah. His ability to play the offensive glass, to make plays with the ball through passing, and the fact that he is supposed to be our defensive anchor is important. Yes, asik is a defensive juggernaut in himself, but there are things asik will never really be able to do, and its those things (passing, running the floor WITH ball, being able to provide energy with his demeanor) that compliment rose very well. With a brand new contract, and the only thing that really sets him apart from guys like verajao missing in his game, Noah’s deficiencies cant be ignored. We have capable bigs on our bench sure, but noah’s worth to this team can be duplicated/upgraded/replaced by only a handful of individuals in the league, and they arent on our bench. If noah isnt at full power, then this team is going to suffer greatly in the post season without a huge talent upgrade. Its pretty dire actually. We need to know how to solve the noah sucking situation, and the answers arent easy, the simplist answer right now might be to actually cut ties…but because of the huge fan following thats difficult. To simply ignore it as a fanbase might end up biting us in the butt. If the fans become ready to part with noah, its possible the organization will as well…that is if it ever has to come with that…
Optimistic reasoning, but there is no guarantee about noah getting better. And the bulls were number 1 last year, in the post season all that means nothing. Also i think it is what fans do, cheer when we win, worry when we lose. To suggest fans stop the worrying is to deny fans the great satisfaction that comes from winning knowing how difficult the journey actually is.
just my counter thoughts to your thoughts
piccolomair - January 16, 2012
Holy shit, do I get extra credit for reading that?
Juiceboxjerry - January 16, 2012
fair enough, i wait till midseason and esp this season being so condensed (lack of training camp). I believe its better to see how this team is with Rip and Rose back and see if Noah and Boozer have progressed
like many have said before, its a weird season, and alot of players have not been playing to their standards. Majority of diehard fans try to analyze game by game, but I like to wait for a stretch of games before I start worrying about a player. Lets just say if Noah is sucking even by all star break, then I would worry about him.
As for being 1st place in the season not mattering coming playoff time is true. However, since Jan have been cruel to the bulls in terms of travel time, lack of practice etc. vs teams like the clips with a lighter jan schedule. Feb is suppose to be lighter schedule and by that time expect multiple teams to be back more insync by that around. If close to or by all star break Noah is still sucking, then its a big problem.
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
oh, when i say pitiful, i mean more like mediocre, not shitty.
Memphis is a good team, so im not surprised the bulls lost today.
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
i swear you are the sole reason these threads seem to take an eternity to scroll through
sin - January 16, 2012
well that and your illiteracy.
tee-ball!
TheMoon - January 16, 2012
Hey-ohhhhh!!
Dogfishhead - January 16, 2012
I think it is fair to critique "how" he produces
I think that’s the whole point. If you have a PF that’s nothing but a jumpshooter, then all you have is a guy who you’re dependent on to get his points being hot from the field. I mean he’s not going to the line a lot right? So how in the world do you expect him to get 20 ppg shooting pick and popping all night?
See that is a problem and I don’t see how much that helps Rose when your PF isn’t even in a position to demand a double team. No the way he scores is the problem because the only way he’s scoring is by basically shooting a bailout shot. That’s not a consistent way or person to run your offense through.
Dils - January 16, 2012
trust me Dils, you are not alone when it comes to wanting boozer to go hard to the rim and at least drawing the foul
however, he just hasnt been the same since last years injury and I think that toe injury is still “lingering.” Not that hes feeling pain or anything, but this injury that basically started the downfall of Shaq’s career is limiting his mobility. Lets put it in simple terms: hes past his prime. Hence, this is why i have come to accept whatever production he can give (if pick and pop is the only way he can produce, thats fine by me). You cant have him do things he is no longer capable of doing.
Noah on the other hand is a complete mystery at this point.
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
Was he ever that 'go hard to the rim, stuff it 'in yo' face!' player though?
Even in Utah? I don’t recall that being so.
2ndHalfAdjustments - January 16, 2012
well, more like driving to the basket for a lay up thru Deron Williams pick and roll or posting up around the paint being 5 feet away from the rim
plus, he actually did that ALONE without Rose before he got the toe injury. He was beasting when he came back from that “trip n fall” indicident.
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
I agree with the emphasis you're putting on the enigmatic
nature of the Noah problem. Additionally, what’s frustrating about the outcry Boozer generates isn’t that it’s baseless. Let me say, I agree with the prohibition movement in this way: Boozer is a jump shooting PF, and as Dils, dakoose, and others have said (so fervently), we’re not winning in the ECF with a streaky jump shooter as the second offensive option on this team. For instance in games 3 and 4 of last year’s ECF Boozer went for 26 and 17, and 20 and 11; he then followed those two outings up with a 5 point 6 board shitfest. He’s not so much like the sun as much as he is a finicky fucking rain cloud that looks ominous enough only to subsequently do nothing. Moreover, Kyle Korver played the role of streaky jump shooter well enough in last years’ playoffs.
But, I can’t pretend that Boozer is the biggest problem this team has even though he’s failed to deliver on the promises of a post-up game. Boozer is a symptom of the problem. Problem is, we’re lost without Rose.
And so, the reaction to the Boozer-bashing is there because I think that the Boozer problem has been extended or exaggerated in such a way that it distracts from other, more root, problems. I only use the analogy of prohibition because of Boozer’s name and because I am on my seventh Pabst. It’s like, yeah, we can ax Boozer, or sit him, or amnesty him, just as you can ban the manufacture of alcohol. But, the point is, husbands still found a way to spend their entire life’s savings and they got fucking hammered at the expense of everyone else they were supposed to be supporting or valuing or whatever. So—in all—prohibition was misguided if not entirely fucking stupid. And utnill we see a healthy Richard Hamilton, a fixed Joakim Noah, and a rested Luol Deng, I’m not ready to prioritize Boozer as the biggest concern.
Dogfishhead - January 16, 2012
Damn, I have not seen one Bulls game but has he really been that bad? He still has to be better than Joel and Pittman. I hope Wade can get healthy and the Heat can start actually playing defense again or y’all are going to kill us.
mjtig - January 17, 2012
kpd - January 17, 2012
awesome
thats…just awesome…piccolo charging a comment attack….
piccolomair - January 17, 2012
Sooo piccolomair
Option27 - January 17, 2012
Damnit!
You got piccolo goin…
T.Moore - January 16, 2012
lol, i actually dons mind him posting his longass posts
his points are quite logical and informative.
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
woah woah woah
That’s a bit rational for this place, don’t you think?
SidM - January 17, 2012
The uproar is not about the present, it is about the future. We want a title.
Anything less is a disappointment. We cannot beat OKC or the Heat with the play we put on the court today. Granted, we have played WAY too many games without a break or practice, several guys are sporting booboo’s…but we expect excellence. You know the players expect the same.
Brigade17 - January 17, 2012
Sir, yes sir!
Dogfishhead - January 17, 2012
quite intriguing
“Two sources said he is sitting because he is having bad reactions to pain medication for his sprained left big toe and couldn’t take them Monday.”
Well, at least he the injury hasnt gotten worse b.c of saturdays game. I would just keep him out till saturday. After that, we should have both rip and rose back.
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
link?
your friendly BullsBlogger - January 16, 2012
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/ct-spt-0117-bulls-grizzlies--20120117,0,7266313.story
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
I'd like to see Rip play basketball again...
But, like
said, “I don’t know. I’m pretty drunk.”
2ndHalfAdjustments - January 16, 2012
OT: holy shit, the lakers only scored 7 pts in the 3rd Q!
shit, i thought the bulls 1st half against the hawks was bad.
Geo4MVP - January 16, 2012
lol, Barkley dropped Noah as his favorite player and said his new guy is... (drum roll)... RONDO
Talk about a punch to the gut. Not that I give a shit who Barkley’s favorite player is, but that we’re gonna have to listen to him kiss Rondo’s ass for the foreseeable future.
Juiceboxjerry - January 17, 2012
Well it's only newsworthy because it might be indicitive of how much Noah
fucking sucks.
Dogfishhead - January 17, 2012
Well yeah, that too :(
Juiceboxjerry - January 17, 2012
Also with Noah, I worry that he might start getting booed at the UC if this keeps up
and I wonder how he’ll react to that. he’s an emotional guy, and he’s even stood up for teammates that have been booed in the past. This thing could get ugly
Juiceboxjerry - January 17, 2012
He needs a boot to his ass. Everything wrong with him is mental. He knows he isn't preforming, but it's another thing to hear the crowd saying the same thing.
Little bit of urgency never hurts.
Brigade17 - January 17, 2012
glad someone else was watching
hilarious to see shaq still refuse to give dwight credit.
and is it really a debate that lebron james is not the best player in the league right now? like i get you can argue mvp and shit but from a talent standpoint lebron has to be the best player in the game obviously right?
sin - January 17, 2012
Shaq's a complete moron.
Bynum is the best big in the league?? Y’all hear that shit?
dakoose - January 17, 2012
ol chuck really makes me wonder sometimes.
obnoxious american - January 17, 2012
fuck the "Boozer and Noah" and "Gibson and Asik" sets. whichever two guys are playing the best should be in the game at the end
and i don’t give a rat’s ass who starts. who Tommy Edwards announces means very little to me. the players who are playing most effective need to be on the floor at the end when the game is on the line.
that being said, for fucks sake don’t start JL3 ever again. i swear, i’ve never seen a guy be a starter and a white flag in the same game before. that was a first. JL3’s turnovers and ball hoggyness were some of the reasons we were behind to begin with
kpd - January 17, 2012
oh, and why do people keep bitching about Thibs' reasons for not playing Boozer and Noah in the 4th?
sure it’s very possible that he didn’t play them because they had bad games, and he just doesn’t want to say that in an interview.
but how is that bad? when has calling out a player to the media EVER been a good thing? let’s see Thibs say something to the media then demand from them what he does in practice. That’s why every group of players that Scott Skiles has ever coached ends up hating him to the point of ignoring what he says and sucking until he gets fired.
kpd - January 17, 2012
Can they
Can the bulls win a title with taj and asik on the floor at the end in the playoffs. I say yes. Defense wins championships. Is rip a big enough addition to the offense it can take pressure off rose and push us to a title. I say yes. The problem is we just havent seen the team as its meant to be too often this season. Before we panic and assume we know what the bulls need, lets at least see what they have. Maybe boozers shooting jumpers works wit rip in the game. Maybe the bulls dont need a clear cut second all star to compete. Maybe we just need a more effiecent offense flow to our game. Maybe thats exactly what rip brings. More balanced scoring. And less of a need for the team to depend on Rose for everything on offense. That to me seems like a definite upgrade from last year. We are way beyond boozer and even noah being central to our title aspirations.
Rose2RipKaboom! - January 17, 2012 via Android app
nick friedell on the score right now
says there’s nothing physically wrong with noah.
obnoxious american - January 17, 2012
I think that's pretty clear.
I mean, he looks every bit athletic as he has in years past, in my opinion. He’s just playing like shit.
dakoose - January 17, 2012
Remember Booz and Kurt?
All this boozer talk has brought me out of my lurker status to remind us all of how solid Booz was paired with a pick and pop center.
It’s clear to me he now feels more comfortable working a bit further from the basket with Noah in there, and hopefully their chemistry improves (they had some nice plays off each other in the celts game).
I don’t know what it is about that guy that has all of us picking apart his game, but I’m watching him almost every moment he’s in.
He is WAY better on rotations this year, but still frustratingly won’t get into a big man’s chest on a help rotation in the paint. I love the ‘big sexy swipe’ he seems to have picked up, and the increased steals.
Always slipping the screen is getting annoying, I’ve counted one solid screen for Rose all year, which resulted in a wide open bucket toward the end of the Toronto game. That said, there are times when he is open after his pick and rose doesn’t even look at him.
I think the most frustrating thing about him is the seemingly inconsistent effort/mental awareness. He checks out sometimes, to the point where I once almost thought he was point-shaving (I love this game).
I’d give him and Jo more time. The only one practice is certainly showing, as Sonty said, and hopefully they both pick it up, though that’s what we always say about the enigmatic Booz.
Braaaaap - January 17, 2012 via iPhone app
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