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Bulls 88, Celtics 79: 'When he plays like that, it's good for us,' Thibs on Noah

There were barstool comparisons of this Bulls team to that of 1989 and 1990 around the middle of last season, with the Celtics being the 1989 and 1990 Pistons. If there's a question that the Bulls are better than the 2008-2010 cream of the East Cs, you're facing a bad question.

The Bulls beat the Cs in Boston on Friday night 88-79, but unlike the early season overtime loss of the 2010-11, an early season loss in Boston would've clearly been a loss to a worse team. Friday, the Bulls -- for the first time in a very long time -- expectedly beat an NBA team in Boston.

Luol Deng (21 points on 8-for-17, 2-for-4 on 3s, 16 rebounds) and Derrick Rose (25 points on 9-for-21, seven assists) lit up the box score, but nothing lit up the eyes like Joakim Noah (ten points, 12 rebounds, four blocks), who played a season-high 38:41 after almost two weeks of inconsistent endgame playing time.

The Bulls held Boston to only 32 points in the paint and 13 FTAs on a night where Noah's feet were active, he attacked loose balls and challenged shots, but remained foul-less and chugging up and down the court. It was a night where he showed early he was someone on whom Tom Thibodeau could depend in the Bulls' ninth game in 13 days, against a regarded powerhouse in the league over the previous three seasons.

Team
OffEff
DefEff
Poss
EFG%
TOR
ORR
FTR
CHI
106.0
95.2
83
48.0
15.7
29.7
28.0
BOS
95.2
106.0
45.3
10.8
18.6
17.3

[Box Score via Hoopdata.com]

After the game, Thibs was asked about Omer Asik and Taj Gibson not getting the fourth quarter minutes; and he responded with overwhelming laughter, "Not enough? Too much? What's next? [...] We really feel the strength of the club is depth up front. Tonight, as well as [Carlos Boozer and Noah] played, Carlos picking up that fourth [foul], you need quality bigs to hold the fort. Omer and Taj, you call on them, they're ready; and they're hard guys to score on. [...] That's the advantage you have with those guys. Some nights you lean more on defense, you may have the lead; some nights, you're struggling to score, you may lean another way. But most cases, it's gonna be Jo and Carlos down the stretch."

Yes, Celtics, you're now what a coach uses to enrich confidence in his struggling starting frontcourt. You know, on one day's rest in their fourth game in five nights.

I'm not one to credit ESPN analysts, and he sells the Bulls short, but there's a point in Jon Barry's postgame statement: "I don't know if we should be more impressed with Chicago or really worried about Boston."

The ship's sailed on "worried about Boston". When out-of-towner national people make statements like this after a team with recent history like the Celtics have been trending the way they have for about the last 9-to-11 months, it's a sign that the new was in and the old was out some time ago. The Cs have issues and the boys at CelticsBlog have to be pissed off enough to say it better than I can. As an admitted (and shameless) Celtic-enthusiast, I'd encourage a dialogue with Cs bloggers instead of being 'a Bulls blogger with negative stuff to say about the Celtics after the Bulls beat the Celtics' because I'm not that and it'd be a more substantial compilation of words; so I'll save that.

For now, I'll just say that they're lucky Carmelo Anthony is ouchy and Al Horford is out for a pretty long time. Otherwise, the prospects of homecourt in the first round of the 2012 playoffs in Boston would look grim.

Star-divide

Richard Hamilton (groin) didn't play. He hasn't in seven of the Bulls' last eight games. C.J. Watson (elbow) is also still day-to-day. John Lucas III was the backup point guard for Friday night's game, playing only 8:41.

The bench wasn't a factor in scoring, rebounding, or plus-minus -- as the starters usurped the playing time, but controlled the pace to not threaten fatigue. Ronnie Brewer (12 points on 5-for-7, four assists, four rebounds, three steals in 36:51) played another great game where he's making the argument that he may -- again -- be the best shooting guard on the roster.

  • Noah's first 35-plus minute game in his 13th game is more 'something' than you may think. Last season, according to Basketball-Reference.com, he hit the mark in 18 of his 48 games played -- nine of last year's first 13. Including the playoffs, he's now only hit the mark in ten of his last 56 games.
  • The Bulls led by as much as 20 over four minutes into the third quarter, but led by only one with ten minutes remaining in the game. Huge brainfart, defensively. There wasn't much help or recovery, so the defense looked like bad zone play for a while -- which is what Thibs' D looks like when at least a couple pairs of feet aren't active.
  • Rose showed he was completely capable, after his injury, of killing a legit NBA squad. "After Boston cut a 20-point Bulls lead to one early in the fourth quarter, Rose asserted control of his team's offense, scoring seven straight points for the Bulls to push the lead back up to eight with six minutes remaining," Brian Robb reported. "Boston was unable to close the deficit below six during the rest of the night as Chicago buckled down their defense and continued to hit clutch shots to keep the C's at bay."
  • The Cs only shot 13 FTAs in a physical game. The refs lets the boys play, for the most part. There were possessions on both ends one could called "missed whistles", but both teams were thrusting chest, extending legs into lanes, and waving their arms without restraint. The two teams are so well-coached to position themselves in order to not have whistles spoil great defense and it showed. Only 11 turnovers for the Cs and nine for the Bulls, but both displayed championship defense; the Bulls' was, expectedly, better.
  • Boozer wasn't bad. He only scored 12 in about 34 minutes, but on 6-for-10 shooting and 3-for-4 in the paint, finding space in the still paint-denial Cs D, while grabbing eight rebounds and dishing five assists. The ball in his hands is a good thing when he has time to re-assess how the defense has shifted to his possession and he gets the ball in good space. This tells more to the game Rose had. Call them hockey assists, if you want, but Booz isn't shy to re-post or hit basket cutters with the best of the bigs; but all bigs only do if they're confident they'll get the ball back on any given possession. Also, his positioning on defense was about as good as you'll get from him -- a level with which you can be satisfied -- to prevent efficient ball movement and any chance for offensive players to establish positioning for second-chance points. Booz was pretty good.

The Bulls advanced to 11-2 to remain atop the Eastern Conference. Saturday, the Bulls return to Chicago to host the Raptors.

Stats via NBA.com [.pdf].

0 recs  |  109 comments

Comments

I didn't like the fact that we were so reliant on Rose once again down the stretch to bail us out

I mean Lu had a great all around game, but most of his baskets were of the jump shot variety. The concern remains: Who do we turn to to get buckets in the playoffs, when a great defensive team (like the fucking Heat) decides to really take the ball away from Derrick?

Hopefully when Rip comes back, he can give us that. He showed that he can post up a little bit, and if he can do that consistently enough, that might just be enough extra offense to get us where we wanna go. Cause even though Ronnie has been impressive, he just can’t be a starter on this team right now.

But that’s more of a playoff concern. This team is gonna likely coast to a top 2 seed whether Rip contributes soon or not.

Eh, the starters toyed with the Celts all night

Most of the Celts’ run came against the bench unit and Lucas, who just couldn’t score at all tonight. When the starters were in (on both sides), it wasn’t even a game.

Yeah, we were reliant on Rose to close it out,

but that’s how things work. The issue with relying on Rose last season was mostly due to the fact that he wasn’t good enough to score against the Heat last season. He’s better this season and is closing out games regularly; just being better might be enough to make relying on him to close out games not as much of an issue.

I don't think it's a question of being "good enough"

We know Rose is good enough. But a great defensive team can still do things to make it incredibly difficult on him. He’s gonna need someone else to create some offense from time to time in the playoffs. I’m not worried yet, but it’s definitely something to think about going forward

I think it's definitely a question of good enough.

Late in games against the Heat in the ECF, he clearly wasn’t ready to score against Lebron. The game tape is clear on that. He simply couldn’t get it done. Hopefully this season, he’s up to the task.

We may still be reliant of Rose down the stretch

But because we rely on him less throughout the rest of the game, it seems like he’s a lot fresher in the fourth this year.

Also, the Rose-Boozer PnR is starting to really work. Yeah yeah, Boozer rarely actually picks the guy, but they’re still getting some nice buckets out of that look, which is encouraging.

Yeah, I'd like him to actually pick and roll once in a while instead of popping,

but it is yielding some buckets from time to time.

I like the way our offense looks, but I still think a true contender needs at least a couple guys that can just create a shot

All this great ball movement we’re seeing is fantastic, but it’s more important during the regular season. Once the playoff grind comes, a lot of those shots won’t be nearly as open as they are now

Is there a reason that good passing isn't the way to go about this

What I’m asking is, do we need a guy to create off the dribble or iso? Can’t hard screens and crisp passing get guys open looks?

Personally, I don't think so

And don’t forget that the Heat are incredibly athletic, one of their gifts as a defense is the way they’re able to lay passing lanes.

When you’re playing the Wizards, Pistons, yeah it’s easy to swing the ball like that and get great shots, but against the Heat in the playoffs, a lot of those passes will result in Lebron or Wade running down the court for dunks

*play passing lanes
The fact that the Heat play the passing lanes well doesn't mean you can't beat them in ball movement

It does make it harder, but the key is good off-ball movement to make it more difficult for them to play those passing lanes. When they cheat to get the steal, make them pay by cutting backdoor. When the Bulls are firing on all cylinders, they have the personnel to beat the Heat by playing that type of basketball.

Yeah, I know

but we moved the ball pretty well last year too, and how did that turn out?

The thing is we stopped moving the ball against Miami

Rose stopped trusting his teammates (and given how poorly Boozer/Noah were playing I can’t blame him) and started forcing things. We also had Bogans out there, who didn’t really do anything but stand in the corner.

i dont mind having Rose taking clutch shots every game down the stretch

he is developing into a real nightmare in the 4th quarter, which I really like. I think what your kinda beating around the bush is inside scoring, which is where high percentage shots come from and Boozer has anything but consistent down low.

Rip/Brewer/Korver/Deng we all expect to due some scoring, and Noah is supposed to get those “junk” points and offensive rebounds, but Boozer’s inside scoring is what we really need because it seems we are now getting three pointers when we need them.

Rose needs to rest a few games, let his toe completely heal!
if it's turf toe he would need a lot of games
If it's turf toe, he'd have sucked tonight....

Rondo and inside helpers definitely tested this.

turf toe would keep him out for at least one week
that's not really true

turf toe bother you in different levels and could start as not so bad and later become worse

Thibs already said definitively that it's not turf toe
Show of hands: who considers Englewood to be the West Side?

SportsCenter dude just called Rose a West Side kid. Am I missing something?

englewood is not on the west

sportscenter doesnt know what its talking about

do they ever? lol
they meant west coast cause hes going to the lakers!!!!!!
he must have meant Inglewood
It turns out Brewer can play.
not to take away from this win, but when the hell are are getting Rip and CJ back?

All i’ve heard was that they both had minor injuries, but then why have they both been out for most of the season? It would have been really nice to sit Rose tonight had CJ been available.

I’m not questioning that they are both in pain, but it seems like they’re coming along slower than the Bulls let on.

I'm not a betting man, but if I was (actually I am, but I wanted to use the phrase)

I would say that Rip would return next Friday in Cleveland. After Toronto, Memphis and Phoenix (tomorrow, Monday and Tuesday), they get their first 2 day break in what seems like forever. Which will also likely mean their first real practice at the Berto in forever.

So if Rip is indeed feeling a lot better, and him sitting out is more precautionary at this point (like some have said), look for him to practice on Thursday to test things out, and if he’s feeling good, give it a go on Friday. But the groin is crazy, so you never know.

As for CJ, Thibs keeps saying he’s real close, so maybe as soon as Monday.

getting CJ back right now ies kidna more important than rip

not saying CJ is betetr than rip or anything ,lol, but Rose needs a better backup pg for fuck sakes. JL3 can barely hold the fort and CJ is the pg the bulls need to keep rose fresh for the 2nd half. Rip on the other hand can come back easily (like u said) next friday due to brewer solid production as our SG. He has been awesome overall and its good to see he has develope da shot.

I don't think either are all that important right now to be honest

Especially if Thibs insists on playing Rose for entire halves (hopefully that changes when CJ returns). The fan in me wants to see Rip come back ASAP, but everything else tells me that it doesn’t matter

well, the reason i say bring back CJ asap

to rest rose. Sure, he did well tonight, but his shooting was off due to his toe injury. I would rather have a more competent pg like Watson holding the fort down for 15 mins a game.

Yeah, I agree

But if Thibs is gonna play him 43 minutes a night, it really doesn’t matter anyway.

im jus scared cause we just saw what happened to wade

wade has plantar fascitis, and a sprained ankle. Shit, Wade is gonna be limpin into the playoffs at this rate.

Hope not, they're better without him imo
cj is atrocious too though
Yes, I was looking at Andre Miller backing up Ty Lawson with envy,

although I understand Miller is unhappy with his role.

dude, i have seen enough of JL3

CJ can at least facilitate plays. Sure, its not pretty like Rose, but far better than JL3.

no dude cj CANNOT facilitate plays

hes just better at defense.
he sucks ass at running the offense as well.

im saying he can run the offense better than JL3 and thats a fact

unless you are skipping whenever JL3 plays.

That's really not a fact

It’s your opinion. So far this season, the Bulls have averaged 98.7 points/100 possessions with Watson on the floor. They’ve averaged 103.6 points/100 possessions. Small sample size sure, but saying Watson is absolutely a better point than Watson isn’t really supported by much.

That should say 103.6 points/100 possessions with Lucas out there.
Cj can definitely run a offense better than lucas

Are we really this short sighted, the guy took 28 shots to get 25 points and the bulls barely beat the wizards. Cj game he started he was much better than that against a quality opponent. Cant believe yall think lucas is better or just as good as CJ.

CJ's solid

Any player would struggle if they played as little as he does.

Then what makes you think he's better than JL3?
Defense, for one. He's WAY better defensively

As for offense, JL3 might have slightly better point guard instincts, but CJ is a proven player in the league. He’s been there, done that, and I think there’s inherent value in that. But basically, I just think CJ is a much better player

I'll give you the defense, but I don't see it on offense.
Do you think Lucas is a better player than Watson?
CJ has improved...

from last year’s performance… he is stronger with the ball and has a better feel.

Lucas really isn't doing a bad job

He’s not the world’s greatest facilitator, but he’s a threat out there and does a good job of taking care of the ball.

CJ's injury is more a "pain threshold" type injury, as much as I hate that phrase.

Lucas is doing a good job so they are not pushing him too hard. We want that pain to be manageable so it does not mess with the way he plays.

Rip’s injury is entirely different. Groin pulls are always wierd. They are disabling to one’s movement; you can’t play through it – at least not well. They take a long time to heal as well.

I’m not worried about either of the two. I do want them back as soon as possible, but let’s be honest; we are getting into the playoffs with a high seed. We just need to give them enough time to mesh with the team.

It’s all about the playoffs now.

booz scored and shit today

but he was still effectively useless. i mean he does things we could have taj do already at like a fraction of the same price.

i mean if booz was getting paid what taj was getting paid id never complain about him but the fact that we shelled out such a big contract for a guy whos playing no better than a role player for a season and a half now is just retarded

I try to ignore the obscene amount of money he's making and just look at if he's helping the team

tonight, he did. He hit the shots he took and the fake pass getting Ray Allen to rotate off of him was truly impressive – one of the only times I can remember thinking that about Booz. The point is, he ain’t going anywhere; I will settle for positive results in any form.

i feel like the only reason he's starting is because of the obscene contract they gave him

FO can’t have their big FA signing be a bench player

I don't think Taj can do even what a limited Boozer can on offense

Boozer is a much better shooter and that causes some defensive attention, and he’s a better passer than Taj.

The argument instead is when Boozer isn’t doing anything offensively can you live with Taj’s bad offense since he’s a much better defender.

Taj can't shoot jumpers

For serious.

(btw can we get paddyfairview to start doing game recaps too??)

or at least have some of his quality pictures. best photoshops since SE7

Rose to the rescue in time, just like Mike.
What a fucking move by Derrick.

Sorry. Just saw the highlights

What a move by Jordan.

Sorry, just watching Chicago Bulls Classic on Tivo.

Even though Noah played great tonight, it seems like he's lost some of his bounciness

Lately hes had to gather himself like Omer for dunks, or putbacks. Have to wonder what that’s all about, and whether that will return, or what

There are a few players who had slow starts this season.

It’s kind of a weird season, with such a short pre-season.

Yeah, but how does that equate to lost athleticism?

I hope you’re right, and it’s all about the shortened season, but it’s still a bit of a concern

Well, maybe Noah didn't enter the season in game shape.

Or maybe he needed to work on his timing to rebound. Or maybe it’s just a statistical dip in a shortened season.

I'm not talking about stats, I'm talking about what I'm seeing with my eyes

he doesn’t have the same bounce that he used to. And It’s not a “timing” thing either. I’m not gonna pretend like I know how an athlete’s body works, but after watching Noah play for a long time, I think it’s a kinda noticeable thing

after watching this game

I think that noah is purposely taking it easy because he does not want to get hurt and also have energy for they playoffs. (because it was boston he was motivated to play harder)

It's the tip-in attempts...

I know what you mean. He’s definitely reaching harder to attempt those, meaning he isn’t lifting as well, but anyone with endurance issues has lift issues.

Yeah, I'm hoping that's what it is

Although lately a few of the writers have been stressing that he’s in great shape. So, I dunno.

I think it's lockout legs.

Combined with a brutal schedule that doesn’t allow for rest. Yeah I know he played great last night but I think it still might be awhile before he could regain last year’s form before his injury…if that is indeed the problem. It is a definite concern and I hope very much he turned the corner last night. With Booz settling now for a 15-20 fadeaway as most of his offense, we could use a healthy Noah crashing the boards and dunking with authority come playoff time. If he still gets pushed around in the playoffs it will be a definite liability.

telling you. he's just making absolutely sure that his trade value is low so we won't be able to deal him for dwight
this is what i was saying yesterday.
He's been awful at converting offensive rebounds into points.

Last year he shot 54% on tip-ins, this year he’s shooting below 30%. If it’s a secret injury, or his weed dealer got locked up or whatever else he just doesn’t have the same effectiveness at scoring.

I don’t really think it’s an athleticism issue though because he was a madman on defense.

I don't think they are reaching for rebounds.

But it’s a funny picture so take my rec.

Reply fail. I meant to reply to Brigade17.
I like having games to watch...

but man, this schedule is brutal.

Starting with the Atlanta game and going until the Suns game they will play 11 games in 15 days.

They’ll go from Chicago to Detroit to Orlando to Atlanta to Chicago to Minneapolis to DC to Boston to Chicago to Memphis to Chicago.

That’s just short of 5700 miles!

fuck david stern!
starting in february they will have a ton of homestands, leading to the end of the season.

it’ll be worth it.

Its worth it anyway as a fan at least

It’s crappy outside and there’s a good game almost daily with the bulls playing 4-5 times a week all year. Plus it should keep us poised in the playlist given our youth

I have to say, I've been wondering when, if ever, they get a home game.

I know they have one tonight (Beat the Raptors) but it feels like every game is on the road.

Which makes their record to date even more incredible. Or should I say “incredi- Bull”.

exactly, and its quite legit that the bulls may win over 50 games

i mean, as long they get the 1st seed, but at this rate with our team not even close to their best, i think the bulls will be winning in long stretches like this week and last week.

It's a little thing to be happy about but it brought a smile to my face when Rondo tried to Eurostep Rose

Rose just kept backing off and Rondo basically fell over himself.

that part was hilarious.
boston really needs some offensive rebounders on their team.
Rondo's flop to end the half sealed the game for the bulls

the refs had to watch that clown crumple to floor for like 6 minutes straight, and gave him no calls for the next at least half a quarter. he picked up sketchy charges and and borderline no calls for quite a while after that. I think refs hate nothing more than being duped by floppers.

i don't understand how they fall for that shit to begin with.
at least they didnt continue callin those shitty calls

if it were miami, im sure they would have been callin those stupid calls all night long.

honestly, if I was a referee and a player is out of control

I’m not calling that foul.

these refs were def more smarter than the avg ref, lol

they listened to rose complaints and they knew right away that rose was telling the truth

All their rebounds are belong to us
once the 4th quarter started

rondo did not score a single point. in general he sucked ass in the 2nd half.

hey bro, where my photo caption? you boozer-ed us on this one
noah was absolutely crazy on defense yesterday

And he looks ripped as hell in that picture. I have a feeling his slump might be coming to am end shortly! :)

Whatever hapenned to getting the ball to the guy with the hot hand?

Boozer was nailing that mid range jump shot in the 1st qtr. Am i missing something? why did thy go away from him?

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